From my vantage point
Life in the barrio B.C., that’s boring community, is truly boring. Only the sons, daughters and friendsters of the politicos move up to taste barbecue. Us, los indios have no futuro. Some of my relatives died of kamote overdose. Us the survivors, have to work twice as hard and haw-haw de carabao to even smell pugak pugak de tambutso in the city. Now, that’s a big deal when you go back to the Barrio. In fact, it’s a must that you carry one lata of biskwet. Ave Maria, I never really understood that line that goes sum’tin like “people were created equal”.
But because I was cute, I got lucky. And so were a number of Overseas Filipino Workers and Overseas Filipinos, now numbering to almost over 11% of the entire uncontrolled libido of the country. Winner ang Church. Seryosohin ba nang mga Filipinos ang “go and multiply” at gawing algorithmic fibonachi.
Like some of overseas Filipinos, I’ve lived, studied, worked, played and fooled boylets in the United States for a very long time now. I’ve been here before Adam & Eve, a newly opened gay bar in our area. Yet, I’ve never forgotten my this-land-is-mine. My one and only lupang hinirang. I even knocked three times at the Philippine Consulate in New York to give me back my cedula. I loved those people there. They laughed at me and I have not even said anything yet. ‘Must be my hair and make-up. No, ’twas not halloween when I went.
But in my new homeland, I get to see a lot of places.
Places like…
……. a family room, a dining room and get this! 3 bathrooms?! Gawd! This is insane! This is against humanity! We never had a family room in Bicol. We just had………………. a room!~!@#$! In fact, it’s not very comforting to see our comfort room blown away by typhoons! Amfutta oo!
Ahh… the advantages of traveling.
True, homesickness shit. Forget about that, here, I am soo done with talahib highways, moon craters on the side and oh! I can be who I wanna be with these vagabond shoes in New York, New York.
But there’s more that I learned here. Culture.
Yeah, we heard these in schools – and there is a big correlation between culture and human behaviour. The more we learn other cultures, the more it makes us become better people and adore Lady Gaga.
This even makes it the more interesting, I know you’re tired of reading that word “global economy”, but the more we all should be sensitive of cultural differences, else you lose in that big game called commerce. And with Overseas Filipinos populating the entire planet, ask Jessica Zafra, it’s an advantage to rule the world and so with that, do we expect social changes for the better back home?
I don’t know. I’m not a sociologist. I’m just a social climber.
But that’s one of the advantages of being out of the country. Like all these overseas Pinoys and OFW’s, I am now from the outside looking in. It’s a whole different perspective from where I’m standing. I might not know what corrupt politicos did last summer, but I know what they should have been doing. And my brains would be inundated with questions why things that I saw here, in Western and Eastern Europe, in South America, in other parts of Asia were missing in my barriopolitan area.
Why?!
Sensitive Filipinos not liking rocking the conservatory of music.
And there’s even the bigger why.
Why should overseas Filipinos be no longer allowed to talk shit about the Philippines when we see shit, just because we now live in elsewhere in the world and then simply be labeled mayayabang dahil nakapag-abroad?!
I guess, it depends. Exactly what kind of ideas are you trying to sell? It’s bad enough that you might be espousing dangerously radical ideas, worse, you are now attacking the Filipinos personally.
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reynz is one Uragon and a Filipino-American, has many years of public accounting & auditing, broadcast investments, housing tax credits and equity investments as his background. Based in the US, he maintains his personal and humor blog at reyna elena dot com. A graduate of Aquinas U, he went to GWU and Temple U in the United States.
If Flips don’t want to come out from their shell that keeps them poor and helpless then so be it.
Ateng, I feel you. I am with you on this. But I believe there’s nothing preventing us from talking shit about the shitty stuff we see and hear about our bayang magiliw. Nevertheless, we have to be careful in framing our semantics because we risk being perceived as mayabang, people become defensive and we can’t get the message across.
We can criticize siguro without alienating ourselves. After all, Pilipino pa rin tayo. As a nation, our country’s pride is our pride in the same way that the country’s shame is our shame as well. We should use “tayo” instead of “kami dito at kayo diyan’ or “ganito dito, ganiyan diyan”. The greatest mistake that a lot of writers (including Iya from your link) make in expressing their opinion is that the tone of their written piece alienate them from the readers – as if being in a foreign country exonerates them from the blunders that the nation makes. Bakit mo sasabihin na ganyan ang Pilipino samantalang utro man sad kang Pilipinong daku? Ako man ang nasa Pinas, pag siguro nakabasa ako ng piece na ganyan ang tone, maga shift agad ako sa defensive mode, di ko maminaw.
all utots have the same smell, nasa Pilipinas ka man o sa Equator line…
This is what gets most pinoys in trouble, idle talk. talk about why its better in this country or worse back home, talk about why we eat stinky shrimp fry (alamang) and not foie gras, talk talk talk. No matter where the Filipino lives, home or abroad, he will encounter the Filipino culture–good and bad–through his little Pinoy associations, his own barrio, or even from fellow Filipino friends. Kasi ingrained na sa atin ang pagiging Pinoy (mahilig sa huntahan).
The author of the link you gave should reconsider her statement about traveling. Not all Pinoys can afford it. Less can they afford 159 satellite dish channels. All that they can do to alleviate their misery is a little escape of wowowee and telenovelas.
Iya, hayaan mo na sila. Unless na kaya mong i pag travel ang sampu sa mga less fortunate sa barrio namin and make them more cultured, manahimik ka sa mga talk talk talk mo.
Those who think that comparing countries are good for the “positive critiques” have no peripheral vision and are looking through hazy telescopic lens. Mahirap mabuhay sa ibang bansa, ineng. Pero kung kinikritiko mo na bakit may mas mararaming mahirap sa atin, di mo pa siguro nasubukang mangatok sa kapitbahay para pautangin ka ng isang tasang bigas.
Ok lang sana kung mag-salita tayo sa mga cultural mores na pwede nating baguhin. Pero kung tatanungin niyo yung tiyo ko kung bakit adik sya sa telenovela at di man lang makasakay sa barko o eroplano, medyo nakaka-offend naman yan.
Di ba pinoy din itong si Iya? Bakit Barbaro ang tawag niya sa sarili niya?
Nothing about Iya’s article makes sense. Gaya nung sinabi niyang “In the US if you are lazy you die a hungry death”? Is she for real? o baka one of the many wrong assumptions niya about the US? Kasi dito sa US there are a lot of Lazy Filipinos who are fat with welfare and foodstamps.
On the last note: Iya’s statement about Filipinos giving themselves pat on the back. Yes, some Pinoys deserve it, because they worked so long and so hard to send a few hundred home. My guess is, if this lady will try to do back breaking 75 hour week’s worth of worth, she’ll truly appreciate what it means when she flippantly said that “they are still dependent on other people”
Here to my idle talk of the day!
Iya has every right to express her opinion and so do I. But my personal opinion as far as her writing style is, IT HAS NO PURPOSE other than to put down the moral of a nation. She rants about everything negative about the Filipinos. She sees only the negative about Filipnos – rude, racist, barbaric, disrespectful, etc. I feel sorry for her. She must be too ashamed of her roots.
Parang sa pamilya yan eh. Kung may gusto kang i extract na magandang behavior sa miyembro ng pamilya mo, what do you do? You look at them, tell them honestly what their strengths are and what, in your humble opinion, could be done to overcome their weaknesses davah? Then in a loving way, you encourage them and you will see that you get the result that you’ve been waiting for in no time.
If your strategy is; day in and out, you point out to your family, yung mga mistakes and shorcomings nila, it won’t take long before they will totally shut down. Kahit pa ang intent mo ay maganda, kung araw araw mo naman pinapamukha ang kakulangan ng mga Pilipino, hindi makakarating ang mensahe mo… people will shut you down from their minds and hearts.
where constructive criticism is acceptable, what’s objectionable from the are the racist, xenophobic, sexist or homophobic language (i.e., name-calling)
that’s why we have diplomatic missions. more than the economics, but also to see cultures other than our own. what’s wrong with comparing cultures?
it’s like when you make harvest kamotes, you check which ones are good and which ones are taken out by worms. if you have a choice, would you ate those kamotes ravaged by worms? we take the good and throw away the bad. but does not necessarily mean we are throwing the whole basket of kamote itself?
if we try to take the negative out and take the positive in our culture, it does not mean we are getting rid of our being Filipino.
it’s called evolving.
i thought that given that we’re all over the world, assimilating and learning the best of the best in ones culture, that we are able to inject this into ours and so therefore, we should be in the best position to contribute to change.
my frustration is that, we have comrades overseas who seem to be putting Filipinos down… and more
You do not equate my people to camotes. We are far more complicated human beings than camotes. You do not equate worms with behavior, either. They’re not parallel, no comparisons. If camotes have worms, you can throw them away. You can’t do the same thing to your people, can you?
My problem with Iya’s writings is she points out the bad in us as a nation, and that’s it. She writes just how bad the Filipinos are. Isn’t she a Filipino too? Wala naman siyang sinasabing take the negative out and take the positive in eh. All she does is magnify the negative, yun lang. And she has this one little experience and thinks that the whole nation is like that. She, her world, and her little experiences, are not valid samples to represent the Filipino nation. Rubbish!
@ Buraot again
There’s nothing wrong with comparing cultures so long as you do not say or imply that one is inferior because it is different from the other.
i agree kutz
Kutz, the “my people” you are referring to is my people too. i’m trying to put up a comparative analogy to get my point across. and that point is that in all races and culture, there is good and there is bad. we need to cultivate the good and try to get rid of the bad. but getting rid of the bad in our culture does not mean we are getting rid of the whole culture itself, it is making our culture better.
one purpose of why we go work abroad is to make ours and our families lives better. and better life includes being better people.
you probably didn’t get what i was trying to say, but never did i imply that filipinos, nor any other nationality is inferior.
si Iya ang awayin mo wag ako.
Eh kasi naman ikaw Buraot nang aano ka eh… Nagtanong ka kasi What’s wrong with comparing cultures kaya sinagot ko na walang masama basta lang huwag i put down ang isang kultura dahil lang hindi siya kapareho nung isa.
Piktapos sa dami ng pwede mong gamiting analogy sa mga “undesirable” (depende pa rin sa perspective ito) na kulturang Pinoy, kamoteng may uod pa napili mo… Over ka ha.
Ang dating sa akin, you were defending Iya. Okay lang naman yung punahin ang mga hindi kaaya-ayang kaugalian nating mga Pilipino. Pero kung Pilipino writer ka eh huwag mong i detatch ang sarili mo sa mga pagpunanang yun. Pag sinulat ang isang Filipino writer ng mga tulad ng Filipinos are Rude, Racists, Barbaric, Disrespectful, etc, aba eh lagyan ng WE sa unahan para kasali ka rin davah?
HOY! wag kayong mag-saksakan dyan! Prehas pa naman kayong Overseas Pinoys! hahaha! Maintain ORDER! hahaha! Si Iya ang kalaban hahaha!
Eh kasi si Buraot Ateng eh, nang aano…
Kiutz, if you happen to ask, bago pa itinayo ang barriong ito, myembro na ako ng Knights in Shining Armirol ng Mahal na Reyna. At sino man ang mambalatuba sa kanya, binabalatan ko din. kaya kahit di ko sabihin ang salitang WE, given na yun.
besides, totoo naman ang sinabi ko di ba. what’s wrong with comparing cultures? wala naman akong sinabi na i-down nino man ang ibang cultures. i merely said, take out the negative and improve the positive.
kung ayaw mo ng example ng kamote, e di sige an apple tree na lang. there are good and bad in every one. we simply take our the bad apples.
o baka naman sabihin mo nang-aano na naman ko.
Kutz,
hindi ako nang-aano. biased ka lang. wahahahh! o, hindi ako nang-aano nyan ha.
Buraot,
Ah ewan! Di kita na gets at di mo rin ako na gets. Ang isinagot ko lang sa tanong mo per se eh walang masama sa comparing cultures. Yung mga the rest na pasaring ko – basta’t huwag i point out na ang isang kultura ang inferior dahil iba sha, I was already alluding to Iya’s writing style. Saka yung pag gamit nya ng “Filipinos are…” instead of “We..” para naman kasali rin sha sa mga barbaric kung tawagin nya, patungkol na sa kanya yun. I was responding to your question but alluding to her piece at the same time kasi parang pinagtanggol mo siya eh.
Wala naman kasing sinabing maganda ang isang yun. Sabihin pang positive reinforcement does not apply to Filipinos! Haaa????? Kaya pala puro negative lang isinusulat nya! Saan kaya nya natutunan yan? I read somewhere na isa shang green archer? Oh nooooo!!!!!!!!
Sige biased na kung biased. Basta ayoko ng nilalabel tayong barbaric, rude, disrespectful, racist, and last but not the least, yokong kinukumpara sa kamoteng may uod, grrrrrr!
o sya Kutz, lost in transalation lang tayo. heheheh. sa ibang articles na lang tayo mag-argue. don’t worry may coming soon ako. hehehe.
back to Iya, that was just pure arrogance to say that Filipinos not “we” are blah blah. it’s like disengaging yourself from your own kind.
sadly, i have seen some Filipinos on the other extreme as well, promoting the “brown race” as the best race. which is rather silly and is racist at best.
Ayan di na ikaw nang aano…bati na tayo, hehehehe.
Hay naku don’t get me started with the other end of spectrum. Abangan ko na lang yang coming soon. Sino na naman ang aanuhain mo dyan?
yung idol mo sempre. weheheh.
Grrrrr….
Hay naku, I am so over that and moving on! Basta ba factual lang, wala kang maririnig sa akong alindog, hehehehe.
“There’s nothing wrong with comparing cultures so long as you do not say or imply that one is inferior because it is different from the other”
Very well explained Kutz!
Silver’s Kamote Mathematics:
1 kamote + 1 kamote = 11 kamote
1 kamote + 1 kamote + 1 kamote = kamoteque on a stick
not limited to filipinos. i read the brian gorrell and the benjamin kritz also. they are not filipinos. they are foreigners trying to make filipinos at war from each other.
In short carlo, itong sina gorell at kritz (who obviously both dont know anything about our country – limited lang sa tingin nila ang alam nila sa pinas) e tipong mahilig makisawsaw sa sawsawan ng may sawsawan.
Ma’am Reynz sulat ko po para kay Ma’am Iya,
Dearest Ma’am Iyangot Kulangot,
Ulit-ulitin ko mang basahin what you have written there in AP “Can we really blame them?”. Hindi-hindi ka maintindihan ng mga kapwa mo Pilipino – kung sa sariling wika mo na ang Englishzation Deepization “No…no…no… there is no way I could understanding nor under sitting what you saying!”.
Bakit-bakit ba and hilig-hilig ninyo magsulat in this manner. Parang kinakati-kati brain and utaks ninyo to CONFUSE everyone by using VAGUE and MEANINGLESS words. Meaning walang kabuluhan ang meaning ang mga salita ninyo. Am I right okay? Okay… Let us confuse everyone more.
Patanong-tanong ka pa, as in “asking-asking”. Please note and see the use of double-verbs, repeating them to emphasize. Even if you try to dissect the words like a what do you call in the world of scientific the Biologist does to a frog….
Every words and sentences you said there Miss Iya-iya o Yaya just means “kokak!” as that is what the frogs are usually saying and that is what you said Miss Iya when you ask the question “Filipinos are so barbaric don’t you think?”. Ano ba ang pinagkokokak mo when we are of the same race. Pareho tayong lahat Pilipino, it does not matters where we ares as long as we are “Pheeleepenos”. Kokak, Ma’am Iya, understand me.
Alam mo Miss Iya, I really likes your writing almost like Kuya Benign0 Ignacio and Ma’am Imelda C Ignacio kasi pareho po and style ninyo,deep writing that nobody will ever understand except yourself who thinks they are the “intele-ahensiya” of the Philippine brainoid community of deserters…hahaha… who will understand what the assholes are writing…
To summarize Miss Iya the truth you said about Filipinos
“Truth is, despite the pats on backs Filipinos generously give themselves, they are still dependent on other people.”
As true as your words are, who is better at patting one’s back as your arms are closer to your back. Phew! Ang hirap intindihin nang English mo Miss Iya. Sumakit ang ulo at ilong ko – nosebleed at sore eyes ata ang resulta.
Really truly for Pinoys,
Cheekychic
@Cheekychic,
katuwa naman, yes, we talk about that dito sa B7 and it really boils down to – how do you translate your laminated diplomas in way na maintindihan ka by your readers.
i know that benigno’s style is to challenge his readers to his intellectual level. nabasa ko ata to sa either isang comment nya or isang entry nya and i just forgot where.
now, in terms of iya doing all the kokak, why do i seem to agree with you?
i call it credibility – just as I have commented below ki john and mel.
hahaha Reynz…its just so true Kokak and Amen to Ma’am Iya.
I bow to her for those long winded facts that she wrote. Halos lahat nang Pilipino alam na. As to being hurt about it, no it doesn’t.It just shows her total ignorance of the world. As in kulang-kulang pa Iya, your learning experience is kumbaga grade one pa lang!
well, cheeky, are we sure she’s a blogger because those who try to be as vague and abstract are artists, right? hehehe
You are right Reynz kasi sabi po ni Manong George Orwell in Language and Politics, noong 1946 (tagal na noon!).
“In certain kinds of writing, particularly in art criticism and literary criticism, it is normal to come across long passages which are almost completely lacking in meaning.”
Akala ko ay politician.
nyak! hahaha! i had no literary writings in college – i actually just ran accross that line in some jokes – repeated overtime, pinaniwalaan ko na hehe
Iya just came out from an expensive redundant Manila university and in she is just in her early 20′s…
I cannot just seriously react from what she wrote…
It’s just a good example of utter ignorance…
She does not have that mileage to have a take in this complicated social issues of ours in great details.
She is not worth of my madness or praises…
God help her and may she find humility and respect to our complicated, yet diverse social set up.
Mag-masidmasid muna siya.
Hehehe…susunudan ko uro-aldaw sinurat mo…salamat na maray!
Masyado siyang nega. Kumain na lang muna siya sa Jollibee. Hahaha
I don’t know where she got much of her ideas. Siguro yun mga natutunan niya sa kanyang pagiging pol-sci major.
Or baka sa google.
Charot!
@john and @mel,
you two could both be right. i don’t know much about her, but will definitely try to learn more of her, and the little I could read through her writings, I don’t believe she had that much experience travelling outside of the Philippines let alone set foot in the United States long enough to share her views and opinions other than calling Filipinos barbaric.
that’s what i call credibility.
You know Reynz, from my point of view, sinisiraan na rin niya ang sarili niya when she says Filipinos are barbaric.
Oh di ba, Pinoy din siya? ’nuff said.
I want her to use her usual negativity in the recent Pacquiao victory against Clottey.
I dare her to exclude herself and write; You rude racist disrespectful Filipinos – you won!
Plokokok Johnonymous, super nega as in! Ni click ko yung link sa nombre nya… sabi positive reinforcement is not applicable to Filipinos. Whoa!
Ano kayang nega ang masasabi nya ngayon sa ating mga Pilipino, now na nanalo si Pacquiao. Baka mega use na niya ang terms na “WE WON! Nanalo tayong mga Pinoy”.
Pwede ba, no? Bakit mo pa binibigyan ng pansin yung bata na iyan? Wala na yatang Reading Comprehension sa La Salle, e — yacking on the radio is hardly intelligent discourse, u know. Do she and Ilda even have any of their own opinions or do they just jump on the AP bandwagon? Maybe the poor girl needs to read a little more: at this rate, I can’t imagine how she would even pass Freshman English.
Notice: at one point in AP, some guy was getting pretty xenophobic and aggressive. Sinabihan ni Ilda : stop that. But when they were being racist and sexist with me, no comment siya bigla — and it was *her* blog. What does that tell u? It means that such behavior towards someone from a different political camp is okay with her. In my book, it’s not okay to be racist, sexist or homophobic, period, regardless of whether or not u happen to like the person being attacked. U shouldn’t condone it, period.
They can’t seem to get it into their thick skulls that we appreciate criticism but not name-calling. What FV and I object to is me being called a “b..ch”, etc — not their “analysis of Filipino culture. Unless of course that analysis constitutes of nothing more than calling it “sh..t.” In any university I can think of, that method would never pass muster: frankly, any prof would flunk u. Sorry, but u gotta do better than that, kiddo. Where’s the data (not just cut and paste, Bong), where are the facts, Ilda, Iya, Free? Show us some empiricism here. Because the only things you’ve come up with all these months are polemics and sophistry. Personal attacks don’t cut it, sorry. Just engage with the issues and show us what you’ve got.
To share an excerpt from a post I made on FV: “We’re all deeply critical of the Philippines. At least I most certainly am. I could go on an extended litany for hours, days, even weeks. I could write a novel about all the things I think r troubling, nefarious and problematic in this country, and all the spaces I consider to be ultimately lost to history. And i have listened to countless friends, family and colleagues express the depth of their sorrow about the fractured and inchoate universe in which we now find ourselves. Indeed, it is, in many ways, a postcolonial nightmare. Kaya lang, hindi na nga mababango ang mga bangungot, as good old Kidlat Tahimik would say.
“But in the end, I would pick myself up and make an effort to contribute — whether it is in policy analysis, fund-raising, teaching, humanitarian work or the act of writing — which is ultimately just another form of engagement anyway. But even decent writing is couched in satire or sober thinking — u can’t just vomit your ideas on a page, u know, or exorcize childhood phantoms in this site.
Name-calling doesn’t constitute critical analysis, nor does it suggest satire, sorry. Benedict Ignacio (aka Benign0) has a good mind and is wasted as a webmaster in Australia; he could be doing policy analysis instead. Rather than trashing Gordon’s enemies, he could be helping Gordon build his platform. Uh, in case anyone hasn’t noticed, it’s unusually skeletal as platforms go. Why don’t the antipinoys write a policy proposal and send it to Gordon for his perusal? Ben Kritz (aka Ben K) can just walk across the street and pass it on to his cousin when he’s in Cavite. And why have none of them answered Buraot’s posts on Gordon and human rights here in barriosiete? Don’t they feel the need to defend their candidate? Those r some pretty damning allegations, after all. Now THAT would be engagement, don’t u think?
I maintain that being critical of the Philippines does not imply that u need to reject it in its entirety. In fact, being a critical thinker suggests that u wouldn’t reject ANYTHING in its absolute entirety. Because u would understand the notion of nuance, which apparently these people don’t.
Don’t waste your time, guys.
@lila,
i can’t pass being called barbarians by Iya, not very pleasing to ones ear and i know for sure, i’d be labeled onion-skinned wowowee fanatic non-thinker and as you said, we all criticize but not to that extent but! you mentioned one thing:
Benedict Ignacio (aka Benign0) – how come that name is familiar?! i ran across this name and I am familiar with his website, he’s a webmaster in a suburb in Sydney.
I know I made a mistake of thinking that he was Benjamin Kritz but I believe that’s him (benedict)
Lila Shahani:
Just a question:Why are you so fixated on the anti-pinoy people? I mean you attacked people online, so if they strike back, it’s all par for the course, right? Besides, antipinoy.com has a huge number of visitors, maraming kumo-comment, why do you blame them if some person you pissed off years ago comes out of the blue to hit you on that site? Wala naman silang control dun ah.
The difference is they don’t censor posts, kaya lahat lumabas. Yes, pati yung posts ng mga taong may hidden galit sa yo from whatever past encounters you may have had in your past.
Una, you maybe people like Benignz na di naman nag-insulto sa yo. Talo ka nga sa debate, but that was because they had the facts on their side and their logic was impeccable. Sa kaso mo, you answered with “Trust me” and stuff like “I know this person so I know what I’m talking about.” Kumbaga, instead of arguing your case properly, dinaan mo sa position mo eh. You used your position in society (anak ng ex-Senator, member of an illustrious clan) to force people to agree with your views. And failing that, you’d invoke your “insider connections.” Never mind that you don’t substantiate them, basta in your case, you expect people to take your word at face value.
It doesn’t work that way, Lila. Logic and Facts dapat.
Just stick to the issues, Lila. Actually, you keep saying that people take it personally against you, actually ikaw ang namemersonal eh. You’re the one who even makes up stories about other people. Pati ang bata pinatulan mo.
Tingnan mo ang ginawa mo kay Rochelle Sy Chua doon sa FV. Pati siya tinira mo. Ngayon nagkakagulo sa FV dahil sa yo. Nagka-fracture ang grupo. Naman o.
Am I getting this right? Tumawag ka sa nanay ni BongV?!? My God, Lila! Para kang bata!!! Pikon!
Lila, you’re such a bully. Pati dito sa B7 you’re a bully eh. Sa FV mismo bully ka. Masyado lang takot sa pagiging Ramos-Shahani mo ang mga tao kaya di ka kinokontra, but you know, just because you say something doesn’t mean it’s true. You have to prove it with facts, and make sure your logic is sound.
I’ll be honest. I really don’t get why you can’t separate who the article writers are in anti-pinoy versus the commenters.
Tanong ko, if Reyna Elena writes an article here, tapos may mga nagco-comment sa article, do you think Reynz is responsible for what they say? For that matter is B7 responsible for what the commenters say at the bottom of the articles?
Di mo talaga gets ang blogging, ano? Don’t you have your own blog, Lila? Hindi ba may nagco-comment din sa blog mo?
Are you responsible for what they say? It’s the same idea. You are basically blaming the antipinoy.com people (the authors) for whatever stuff is written there by random people who visit the site!
Check out the alexa stats. More people go to anti-pinoy than FV and even B7.
Maybe it’s the controversial nature of the blog and maybe there’s just so many people who now agree with the site’s premise: that there are traits present in Pinoy culture that impede our progress. The embodiment of all these negative traits that keep Pinoys down is what the antipinoy is all about.
Basahin mo nga yung ABOUT page ng anti-pinoy
Basta ganito lang yan, Lila… You basically admitted here that you harassed BongV’s mom by calling her up and backbiting him. Obvious yun sa post mo.
Now why did you do that? Why can’t you just defend yourself in front of them? Why do you like to use the tsismosa palengkera route?
Face them squarely, Lila! Stare them down and get their respect!
Sa ngayon puro ka hiding behind other people. Letting other people fight your battles for you.
You even told FV’er Rochelle Sy Chua that other people are not her personal utusans, but guess what, isn’t that what you let Cocoy and Nick do? You let them go to antipinoy.com to slug it our for you instead of you answering them directly?
Nakupo, Lila. Please lang. You need to get your act together.
“why do you blame them if some person you pissed off years ago comes out of the blue to hit you on that site?”
hmmm… meron po bang history na kayo ki Lila Shahani? ibig sabihin nagaway away na kayo noon?
“Ngayon nagkakagulo sa FV dahil sa yo. Nagka-fracture ang grupo. “
dati naman po yatang magulo dun sa FV puro sila pataasan nang ihi
OPSS! CLARIFICATION: Nabasa ko lang
Check out the alexa stats. More people go to anti-pinoy than FV and even B7.
While I admit that anti-pinoy have indeed trounced FV in terms of alexa, we have graphs to prove that most FV readers actually moved to anti-pinoy.
But compared to Barrio Siete, Anti Pinoy still has a long way to go. However, is Anti Pinoy can sustain it’s current level of interest, of course, there’s a possibility for anti Pinoy to catch up with B7. At this point though, there are still more people who goes to B7.
Clarification on the Jessica Rules the Universe link
This is in response to one reader who emailed about Jessica Zafra:
Jessica wrote a hilarious article about OFWs running the world. I could not find the link no more. I truly love that entry and would constantly refer to it – that’s the entry that I was referring to above. I will check with Kotsengkuba if he still has the link and will update my blog entry.
I read that particular article Ate Reynz, but not in her blog but in her book. Funny and hilarious yung mga D.H. ruling the world. It’s very possible though. Hahaha
I heart Jessica Zafra.
thanks mel, you said the right word. i found it – let me update/correct the entry
http://www.jessicarulestheuniverse.com/the-zafra-theory-of-world-domination/
I am an OFW here in the least corrupt country where kahit naka-office attire ka on weekdays, they will still try to insult you by saying “is it your day off?” o kaya naman ay “wah, your employer so good ah – they allow you go out on weekday”..langhiyang mga kumag to..broken english eh mayayabang..no offense sa ating mga DH because i know truly na mga bayaning pinoy sila..minsan din, nasasabihan ako na “wah..my maid also filipino”..ang banat ko “wow! really? then your maid must be really good!”
what i realised about working overseas is that you need to work doubly hard to show everyone you have every right to be here, to be on this job and that you are deserving of the position. you need do everything twice as much!
i don’t have any plans of returning yet to philippines..baka magkaroon ako ng high blood dahil sa mga politicians who continue to rape, bleed to death and savage our country. i will stay where i am at, helping our country the best way i can for the moment – that is sending my remittances.
but i am still hopeful..if there’s one thing with us filipinos – “we are always hopeful”..the one thing that we really need to work on is “realizing and putting that hope into action”..
wish ko lang..kung meron susunod na bagyo – focused lang sana sa mga numerous houses ng mga corrupt politicians na yan!!
Abby,
Hehehhe. Yung tipong ang buhawi e dumaan sa mga mansion ng Ampatuans at mga politikong epokrito at kurakot. Heheh.
Sa daming OFW’s, we’ll be better someday. Evolution has never failed. We will evolve, that’s for sure. OFW’s know what it takes. There’s a price though, like broken families; it’s miserable. Filipinos are resilient I think. I met kababayans here who are really doing well (not only financially), and some who are lazy. Bottom line, kung kinahihiya mo ang being a Filipino, I really pity you, but it’s your life.
Art,
Kung kinakahiya nyang maging filipino, while in fact, filipino din pala: tanggalan na lang ng citizenship. Tutal, ikinakahiya naman eh.
Hayzt. Daming balugang anti-filipino eh. Akala nila e sumpa sa kanila ang pagka-filipino. Well…hirap kumausap sa mga balugang tao na yan.
Benign0 = Benedict Ignacio (Australia); Bong V = Warlito “Bong” Vicente (Florida); Ben K = Ben Kritz (Cavite); Iya = Iya Justimbaste (La Salle, Sentro ng “Katotohanan”). Kahit na baguhin pa nila ang mga avatars nila, malalaman pa rin natin kung sino sila.
Then there’s Amiel Cabanlig (mostly pro-administration clients) at Dona Victorina and Paul Farol (who’s suddenly changed his tune, I notice; he’s a former staff of Dick Gordon) in Pinoybuzz. And of course the Mike Defensor/Bongbong connection. I mean, may paper trail naman, e. Kahit dinilete ni Paul at Bong bigla ang mga pinagsusulat nila.
Some want their anonymity respected while they say racist, sexist and homophobic things? Well, if they use that anonymity to be abusive, I’m afraid we have no choice but to “out” them. Why r we obligated to respect people who r deliberately disrespectful? Let’s see if they have the courage to continue being abusive using their real names. I notice (apart from the children) they’ve been pretty quiet these days.
Don’t they understand they’re just making their client (este, candidate) look bad? Unless he’s just a foil to distract the nation, in which case it make sense that they’re so noisy? Marching orders: DISTRACT THE NOYNOY SUPPORTERS; ATTACK NOYNOY ABOVE ALL ELSE. SAY: ANYBODY BUT NOYNOY. The question is: WHY? See my “dilettante” post for overarching motivations…
And now Bong V and Iya r spreading the word that we’re threatening to harm Bong daw. What kaya if I sued them for libel? Sila lang ang kawawa diyan. My Mom and brother were in the room when I was talking to Bong’s Mom, so there r witnesses. My Mom and Bong’s Mom kasi r in the same meditation group (although Mom is much more serious). Mom was shocked at how Bong writes and decided to call his Mom after reading all his posts (yup, even the ones he deleted; Paul, that goes for u too, btw). Ba’t ganyan makipaglaban ang anak ninyo, etc, pati si Cory dinadamay? E patay na yung tao, no? So I decided to talk to her na rin. My kuyas and their friends (and some of my friends) got pissed din kasi. For the guys, their reaction is physical. Me, I’m female and I’m pretty small, so that’s a non-option for me, di ba? Besides, I can always use language to cut people down to size — it’s a pretty formidable instrument. I was just telling his Mom that he should try not to piss too many people off by attacking more women because some of the guys r a lot more pissed off than me, and I can’t control them all (not everyone is in Pinas now, e). Some of them feel honor-bound to defend women (especially Cory) — mga gentlemen kasi.
Besides, if I wanted to have him harmed, I would hardly tell his Mom about it now, would I? I would just quietly do it, right? Napaka-moronic talaga. I mean, DUH.
I have many other options, and they r all legal and above-board. FYI, I’m not the one in FV who wants to sue them — sa akin, waste of time lang iyan. My options have to do with the power of language. That’s all I’ll say about it for now.
In the meantime, as Reynz would say: pwe!
hayan bongv, behave! if not… i’ll tell your mom. wahahahhah!
Then what’s this whole roll-call you keep doing of different anti-pinoy personalities?
Every time one does a search on you, puro conflict. It’s full of instances of you picking on people. Pati tito mo tinira mo. And it’s always about who they are or what they are like rather than the soundness of their arguments versus the soundness of your arguments.
Please Lila, nakita ko ang mga arguments. You simply could not defend your side, so you pulled rank. I’ve looked at benign0′s articles, wala namang insulto sa yo. So why are you so miffed at the anti-pinoy people?
I think it’s something to do with a fragile ego, Lila. What happened?
This is what I see: IKAW yung may problema. Instead of seeing that there are people who can disagree with you, siguro masyado kang sanay na puro yes ang mga tao sa yo kaya when you came across people who can debate very well, naiinis ka.
Honestly, Lila, this is just some healthy constructive criticism for you, but really, I haven’t seen a post from you that does not hit a person. Buti sana kung yung arguments ang pinag-uusapan. Hindi eh. It’s personalan.
Yung mga insulto na sabi mo, directed ba sa yo? Wala yata akong nakita na sent by people behind antipinoy.com. (and by that I mean authors) Kasi nga you seem to think that random visitors’ (including that guy na mukhang binasted mo yata kaya galit sa yo) comments represent anti-pinoy’s views.
Learn to separate the site and its visitors. The authors are more-or-less connected to the site. But the visitors, they’re not part of it. (I am a visitor. I am NOT connected to Barriosiete.)
You keep harping about name-calling, but who did what name-calling? Did site-authors call you names? Or did they describe you accurately? How about the insults, who did it? Site-authors or visitors?
You purposely muddle up the issue with vagueness para mawala yung need for specific proof. Sige, exactly WHO called you WHAT?
Show proof nga, Lila? Exact instances please. Wag yung “from those guys.” WHICH GUYS? Authors or Visitors?
If I called you names here on BarrioSiete, would you take that against BarrioSiete or against me?
Would you rant about “those guys in BarrioSiete” if I (and maybe a handful of other visitors) called you names?
Once again, you clearly are confusing the visitors who leave comments and the site’s authors.
For sure, meron talagang mga walang hiya doon sa comments section. But this is the price of a free-speech comment board na walang censorship. As far as I’ve seen, BongV says that anti-pinoy was born out of the censorship they experienced in FV and here in B7 where they were muffled because their views went against the prevailing political orthodoxy (both sites are pro-Noynoy, the AP people are anti-Noynoy).
In short, no censorship ang site ni BongV because para sa kanya “do not do unto others…” (you know the rest, right?)
So ayan, maraming random visitors doon. Kung may problema ka sa isa o dalawa o tatlo sa mga visitors na yan, then correctly identify them and rant against them.
Ikaw kasi di ka marunong mag-pinpoint precision. You use an atomic bomb eh isang bahay lang naman ng kalaban ang dapat tirahin. Andami tuloy nadamay mong inosente.
You continue to crucify several people from anti-pinoy, pero sila nga ba talaga ang dapat mong kainisan? Once again, we’re back to your inability to separate the site and its visitors.
Ganito: You’re allowed to go personal against those visitors who commented in a way that hits you personally.
But the site authors? So far, issues ang pinag-uusapan nila eh. And so far, tinamaan nila yung pamemersonal mo. Tinamaan nila yung logical fallacies mo of using your connections or your position in society or your connections as your basis for why they should take your word for it.
Basta Lila, di puede yung “take my word for it.” Dapat may proof ka. You want to say something, cite specific proof to support your statements, hindi yung “I am in the know so you should listen to me.” That doesn’t pass as intelligent discourse, Lila.
That’s authoritarianism. That’s despotism. That’s the essence of dictatorship.
And please. Reflect on how some sites like FV stifled the opposing views instead of allowing debate and discussion to cause the better ideas to prevail and emerge.
At saka Lila, hindi naman naiiba ang mga discussion doon at dito sa BarrioSiete eh. From what I can see, people here on BarrioSiete also do name-calling. And the name-calling is happening on this very comment board: people are calling Iya, Benign0, BongV, etc NAMES.
But I’m not making a sweeping broadbrush stroke of saying that “BarrioSiete” is calling them names. Instead, I recognize that many of them are visitors to the site. (Ok, maybe there’s a membership scheme) But they’re not the site itself.
Same with anti-pinoy There are nasty people there in the comments section and it’s just the reverse treatment of the topics here. Dito majority pro-Noynoy and generally ayaw marinig ang criticisms about Pinoys (though recently I’m seeing more of those types of articles coming out from B7 now), sa anti-pinoy, baliktad: majority anti-Noynoy (halo-halo: mostly pro-Gordon, may konting pro-Perlas, meron ding pro-Gibo) at critical of Pinoy culture’s flaws.
Basta ganito lang Lila, you have to get over your self-importance and realize that rational people won’t agree with your views just because you’re Lila Ramos-Shahani. Instead, rational people will agree with your views if you are rational enough to come up with rational arguments that have the supporting evidence/proof, and if your explanation of that proof is logical.
Seriously, you should consider making your case logically to the site authors, concentrating on the issues where you have disagreements with them, and personality is irrelevant. And you should learn to distinguish between the site (and its authors) versus the visitors who leave comments.
If you have beef (ay bawal pala sa atin, hehe) with a visitor’s comment, then take it up with that visitor, don’t condemn the site and its authors.
I take you to be highly educated and rational, and that means you should be capable of understanding why – in this case – your actions and your fixation on the personalities behind AP is totally misguided and wrong, and that you know what you must do to remedy the situation.
oist, Kishore, kung gustomong mag-plug ng Anti-Pinoy site, magbayad ka. hindu yang tinatadtad mo ng link ang comment mo. spamming yan.
asan na baang gwardiya dito? securityyyy!!!
tanggalin ko nga. with so many links kasi, dinudukot ko pa sa spam page. nakakainis.
Kishore:
I’m not joining this beef you have with Lila but let me make a clarification on this one:
I blocked BongV in this site because we in B7 were determined to stop trolls, we are still doing that currently and we refused to be bombarded with anonymous comments from one reader.
I proved my point in a separate entry I made and I captured those comments showing the readers the several USERNAMES under 1 IP.
Aside from BongV, I also blocked DOUBLE YOUR PLEASURE, again, similar captures. I just don’t block people in the barrio simply because they disagree with us. I offered proof.
WORSE, you guys went on a personal attack against me. From benigno to benkritz to bongv and you guys made several entries that piqued me.
Now, to give you an update (although I have a feeling that I know you) BongV and I have already settled our scores – apologies on both ends have been accepted. I offered that I delete my entries, however, BongV said to let is stay to prove to people how we resolved our differences.
Please be reminded, we and/or I do not block people here just because they are against our opinion. If anyone is blocked here – it’s almost always that those are four letter worded evilized comments. We don’t accept those here. We are pretty clear our policies.
NEXT – Barrio Siete being a collective blog is a collection of writers. We have explained this in several entries already. You will find a slew of supporters here for several candidates.
To name – Kutz is rooting for Gordon, I am rooting for Noynoy, Pehpot is rooting for Villar to name a few and we have Gibo and Jamby supporters. This is expected because I do not influence B7 writers on their choice of candidates.
So, just to remind you – we blocked BongV because of double personalities and NO, Barrio Siete is not 100% Noynoy. Reyna is.
ALSO, all of your comments goes to SPAM because of all the links that you inserted. If we don’t check the spam there is a probablity that your comments will be automatically deleted without us knowing. Please stop linking. Obvious masyado that you are asking for traffic. I’m giving you enough already.
Anyway, thanks for letting my posts in, Reynz. I just don’t know what to use to refer to the “kabilang barrio” as you call them. AP kasi is used by Associated Press. And calling them the “antipinoy people” doesn’t seem fair (sila naman ang magagalit sa akin) because the About page shows that they don’t call themselves antipinoys and instead they are “fighting against” the antipinoys whom they describe as impeding Pinoy progress.
At least di kayo katulad ng FV na talagang super-moderated at dinedelete pa ang mga posts ng may kakaibang views kaya marami kaming nagsilipat from FV patungo sa kabilang barrio.
Here in B7, naka-ugalian na naming tawaging “Kavilang Varrio” ang FV. Not anti-pinoy.
Here is the entry I was talking about:
http://barriosiete.com/signs-of-desperation-benjamin-kritz-goes-on-a-personal-attack-against-reyna-elena/
P.S. The latest comment under Iya’s vapid rant: “Pinoys aka Proto Humans are not worthy to be called “Asian”…” Yup, this is the kind of “katotohanan” those guys peddle…
Lila…
Isama na rin natin siya sa mga Pinoy dito na who categorize themselves as “Pacific Islanders”
Hahahaha… grabe talaga itong batang iyan…
Madam,
Yang batang yan, pag nakita ko sa kalye, masasabunutan ko para makatikim ng sabunot mula sa isang Pinoy (which according to her term e proto-human)
Lila: Ayan ka na naman. Just look at your comment: “The latest comment under Iya’s vapid rant: “Pinoys aka Proto Humans are not worthy to be called “Asian”…” Yup, this is the kind of “katotohanan” those guys peddle…”
“Latest comment UNDER Iya’s vapid rant” (emphasis on UNDER) – sino ba ang nagsulat niyan? Si Iya ba? Author ng anti-pinoy ba ang nagsulat ng comment na pinag-uusapan mo? Sus naman, Lila, it’s in the comments section. Do you know how many people visit the site? I-alexa comparison mo nga.
You’re barking up the wrong tree, Lila. The visitors who comment are separate from the site. Same here in B7. I’m a visitor and what I say here is not B7′s official ideas. Ganun din sa anti-pinoy or any other site that allows visitors to leave comments. What visitors say in the comments section is not the site’s authors’ ideas.
If you have concerns with certain visitors who leave comments that you don’t like, then voice your concerns straight to the visitor who left the comment. Don’t blame the site authors for what they did not do.
Tama bang i-blame mo si Reynz for what I write here? I’m not him, and I’m just a random visitor commenting on B7. Same goes to anti-pinoy. The visitors there are separate from the site.
Fight your own battles fairly, will you? Para kang terrorista eh. May kalaban ka pero di mo tinitira ang kalaban mo, kundi mga inosenteng walang kinalaman sa away mo.
when living outside the country, what to do to get ahead is anyone’s own business. what makes anyone happy, just do it. however, basic standards have to be met in pursuing one own’s thing in a fx land; and the foremost of which is not to slander one’s own culture. the best way to show it is by confining within our own ethnic circle or better yet within our own self, the trespasses (perceived or real) committed by of our own kababayan(s). hanging dirty laundry outside the fence, is at the very least very disrespctful to our land of birth.
1) She’s never heard of Rolf Harris
2) She’s never watched Japanese television
3) She doesn’t know that hasty generalization is a fallacy
4) She doesn’t know that coherence is essential to writing
I would like to say more pero honestly, di ko gets ang point ni Iya.
Uh, “Kishore” (or whatever your name is)? Reading comprehension, please. The operative word was “UNDER,” which is exactly the term i used. I believe u need to address your point to Silver, who might have misunderstood the point I was trying to makw. Apparently so did u. The point is that AP readers/commenters don’t bother to respond to comments that many readers might find offensive.
My point stands. All u did was clarify who in the site wrote it, not that it was in fact problematic. I rest my case.
Lila Shahani:
You r the one w/ the Reading comprehension problem. Why should I address my point to Silver when it was YOU, Lila Shahani, who said:
“The latest comment under Iya’s vapid rant: “Pinoys aka Proto Humans are not worthy to be called “Asian”…” Yup, this is the kind of “katotohanan” those guys peddle…”
Si Silver ba ang nag-post niyan, Lila? Hindi eh. IKAW, Lila. You said that, not Silver. I specifically clicked on the REPLY button under your “March 15, 2010 at 8:52 pm” comment, not to Silver’s comment. (Tingnan mo nga please ang indentation ng comments in order to know which comments are the responses to which comment, ok?)
Now let me show you why you r wrong in insisting your extremely fallacious point: The nature of the comment you were referring to was not the issue, Lila.
In fact, even if the comment under Iya’s article (particularly the “proto-human” comment) was indeed problematic, the question is why are you attributing it to Iya or to anti-pinoy for that matter?
Sino ba ang nagsulat ng comment? Taga-antipinoy ba? Si Iya ba?
You have no case to rest kasi mali ka pa rin, Lila.
Do you see why you are illogical, Lila? See why you lose debates?
Faulty kasi ang mga arguments mo, Lila. Here’s what you said to me:
“All u did was clarify who in the site wrote it, not that it was in fact problematic.”
Sure, I made the point to show that it was clearly a VISITOR to anti-pinoy who wrote it. And that is exactly to counter your wrong idea here when you said:
“Yup, this is the kind of “katotohanan” those guys peddle…”
So you think that anti-pinoy peddles the comments placed in there by the site’s visitors? In other words, are you saying that the comments left by visitors are therefore rightly attributable to the site and its authors?
Come on now, Lila, let me ask you: Is BarrioSiete responsible for the comments that I, Kishore Chulani, write here in this site?
Is BarrioSiete PEDDLING the katotohanan that I place here? Of course not. BarrioSiete just happens to be the venue where I am peddling MY katotohanan.
Same with anti-pinoy. If an apparently jilted ex-manliligaw of yours visits anti-pinoy to make hateful remarks against you, wala nang kinalaman ang anti-pinoy dyan. If some random visitor makes a comment about Pinoys and Proto-humans, wala ring kinalaman ang anti-pinoy dyan sa comment na yan.
Those are the words of the specific visitors who left such comments. They are, therefore, not the words of anti-pinoy.
So the question, Lila, is why do you continue to be so fixated on the people who run anti-pinoy, when your beef generally should be with those random nut-cases who left comments that were not to your liking?
You have been barking up the wrong tree, Lila Shahani by focusing on the people behind anti-pinoy when you should be focusing your effort on those visitors who left the comments you don’t like.
As for engaging the anti-pinoy authors on their content or their message, you should focus on the ideas and the message, and not on who-wrote-it. Ininsulto ka ba nila? Hindi. Natalo ka lang kasi sa debate kaya galit ka sa kanila at pinepersonal mo.
Wala ka nang lusot, Lila, and you have no case to rest.
Redundant, boring and belligerent describes you Kishore. The same type of personality shown by Iya through pa-ikot-ikot words and the rest of the AP gangs.
It is funny to see you get stomped through Lila’s words. We will just watch and read. Hahahaha!
Stumped, ikaw yata ang stumped, cheeky.
makasali na rin po.
Every time Iya comments on Noynoy’s FB page, and other supporter pages, she always calls Noynoy’s supporters “stupid.” I’ve been tempted several times to ask for her credentials, but when I googled her- a PolSci degree from DLSU taken very recently. No comment na lang.
At yes, gusto ko syang isumbong sa mga Professors in DLSU!
Well, GayBG,
B7 happens to have a numbe of DLSU people here (readers/followers). Me isang former professor (o dalawa ata) and DLSU grads. None of them are airheads like what I seem to feel of Iya based on her writings and comments and I am not getting it. I have nothing against DLSU, after all, me mga pamangkin na rin akong nag-graduate in that school kahit na I was barriotic – wa opportunity to be in these schools during my time.
What I am not happy about is using the “PolSci degree from DLSU” to just blatantly attack Filipinos. I understand pikon at sensitive ang mga Pinoys and yes, we do that here too but not on a level that Iya is doing.
Calling Pinoys barbaric? Maybe the Ampatuans. But even the Ampatuans are not a representative of the Filipinos.
Ay, I should have made myself clearer. I didnt mean to belittle her polsci degree from DLSU. Pareho tayo nang ibig sabihin na she shouldn’t be thinking that having a degree allows her to demean fellow filipinos. And she seems to reserve the adjective “stupid” for Noynoy supporters, which really rankles. As if having a heart negates thinking. (Sorry for bringing this up again; I have seen too many of her comments; and I’m reacting to those rather than to the article referred here).
And yes, I have actual friends and FB friends from DLSU. One used to be Chair of the PolSci Dept- sa kanya ko nga gustong isumbong si iya.
and i really don’t get “anti-pinoy.”
DLSU alumna here… and I don’t agree with Iya’s incoherrent rantings either. Are you sure DLSU sha? Or check nyo kaya kung ilang taon nyang inaral ang Pol Sci, kasi dapat 3.5 years lang yan or less dahil trimester yung University. Pag umabot sha ng 4 years or more bago naka graduate, hehehehe, ala lang…. baka nagkasakit??
o baka naman professor nya si mangubat hehehe yong merong doctorate? remember him? yong merong 8.5 million readers a day? hahaha
I remember manggubat! Yung nag claim na mas maraming readers kesa CNN? Yung nag claim na professor ng DLSU, HAHAHAHAHA, bka nakapag part time instructor lang at best ang tawag sa sarili professor na, HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Hay naku, Kishore, ngayon ko lang nakita ang earlier post mo. I think u really need to get your facts straight. I’ve already said on FV that I don’t reject everyone in AP — please check the boards again. Hindi ako “natalo” ni Benedict sa discussion, pwede ba? He’s the one who refused to engage with me on FV and started writing blogs ABOUT me. Otherwise, we could’ve easily just sorted it out. All were personal attacks about being moronic, etc, only because of own political choices. As far as I’m concerned, u can all vote for whoever u want because it’s none of my business. It’s a free country, after all. Then Bong went on about my choice, as did Ilda — as if I had no right to make my own decisions. Benign0′s” “moron”; Bong: “Bombay”; Ilda” “Nick and Cocoy r rubbing shoulders with the people they should be critiquing;” Carlo: “pretentious bi..ch”; and Iya: “has no mind of her own and follows popular opinion” etc, etc. Aren’t u the ones who aren’t sticking to the issues? If it wasn’t personal about Harvey, me and others, why mention us so much in their blogs in the first place (as “case studies”)? We certainly never discuss them in any of ours. As a matter of fact, all my blogs r about specific issues; I don’t discuss any bloggers in them. If I discuss anyone at all, I discuss political leaders.
FYI, I never asked Nick or Cocoy to defend me anywhere. I have yet to meet Nick and have very little contact with him. Cocoy and I have only met once. Whatever they do, they do of their own accord. While I greatly appreciate them, I can’t be responsible for anyone but myself.
But if anyone has been a bully here, it’s Benign0 and BongV. I think everyone knows that. “Carlito” claims to have met me but I wouldn’t say that I necessarily believe him, sorry. I don’t get the sense that too many people do either. He certainly was incapable of giving any proof of having met me, just like Bong. But it’s not as if “b..ch” and “po…k” was the only rude thing I heard from those guys anyway; Benedict and Bong were way up there too. The question is: why r they so aggressive towards others just because of what they believe? When Benedict got upset with me, I wasn’t even talking to him; I was talking to some other guy (Abe) and sharing why I agreed with him. Is that such a terrible thing? Let’s face it: many AP people can’t stand anyone who doesn’t see the world the way they do (even if Free is for Satur and Bong is for Gordon; ideological distinctions notwithstanding, they both feel they represent the margin…). Well, I maintain that we’re all free to think whatever we like and no one has the right to suggest otherwise.
As for Rochelle, read the thread again. She began calling Cocoy and me selfish for bringing up the issue and we basically just set her straight. It’s nothing personal. But everyone has the right to give it right back to people who attack them. You’re not a bully if u were being attacked in the first place: you’re just defending yourself. Notice that Cocoy got even more pissed than I did.
Finally, I don’t need my family for me to have a sense of self-esteem: when I’m abroad, no one knows who my family is, and very few people even care. I’m perfectly comfortable resting on my own laurels and being who I am. So perhaps my family name is a bigger issue for u than it is for me.
Once again (in case it’s still not clear), there r specific people in AP who I think r unnaturally aggressive (incidentally, a great many people share that view). In FV, if someone posts a comment under your blog u deem to be offensive, u r entitled/expected to moderate them or post a comment in response. I don’t believe in moderation, but do hold the writer responsible for comments under their respective blogs if they don’t say anything about the offensive pieces in the first place. It’s not about being offended (I’m used to it na, as r so many other people); it’s about being BEMUSED at such tactics, that’s all.
At any rate, this discussion has become boring, don’t u think? No reason why u should care about what I think any more than I care about what u think. So I suggest we agree to differ and find a more interesting topic now.
Lila Shahani:
First things first. I’m one of the numerous people who actually got placed under automatic moderation in FV long ago at the height of the whole Noynoy-running-without-anything-other-than-his-name issue. Worse, dinelete pa ang mga posts ko. I’m not an author at anti-pinoy, as are numerous other regulars there.
I also tried joining in the discussion when you were there only to see that whatever posts I got through got deleted 30 minutes later. I would therefore not be surprised that they’d have done the same to benign0 and everyone else who didn’t think Noynoy was a good candidate. You wonder why they had no choice but to blog about you? It’s most probably because FV shut them up the way FV shut me up.
Now, you claim some people insulted you. Where’s your proof? And I mean links, Lila. Either links and screenshots. Don’t you think you’re probably being a little too self-important to think that they were hitting YOU and not your ideas? I for one have seen benign0 in action before. He’d call your views moronic and tell you why, but he won’t say you’re a moron. Now if he did call you a moron, where’s the proof? For that matter, if anyone says your choices are moronic, that’s about your choice. It’s about your idea. Not you. For Bong, for instance, what’s wrong with “Bombay?” I’m half-Bombay (that’s the Tagalog term!) and proud of it. I tell others that if it weren’t for us, there wouldn’t be a zero, and there wouldn’t be the use of our 1,2,3,4… numerals which the Arabs copied and taught the Europeans to use in Southern Spain. What I jokingly tell friends is “I may be Bombay, but don’t ever call me 5-6!” because I’m Sindhi, and it’s the Punjabis-sa-Pinas who do most of the microlending na naka-motor.”
With Ilda, yes, it’s true. You are someone to be critiqued, and that’s unfortunately because you come from a politically-illustrious family. You’re from the political elite. You’re not one of us. And for Iya, yes it’s true that your ideas are based on public opinion. For someone who studied abroad, your political views are extremely parochial and simplistic. It’s about your ideas, Lila.
And then this Carlito. Who is that? Is that an author at anti-pinoy? If that guy does know you, do you think he’ll reveal details that would give him away? Akin lang ‘to ha, but he might be someone who has a crush on you or someone who tried getting your attention or something. Whatever it is, the key issue is that you seem to think that Carlito = anti-pinoy. Now isn’t that wrong? I noticed you even mentioned Free whats-his-name. E taga FV yun ah! I haven’t seen any articles from him.
Bottomline, Lila, you’re mistakenly thinking that anyone who “makes-tambay” at anti-pinoy is necessarily connected with the site, which is precisely what I’ve been criticizing you for. To be “redundant” about it. Are you going to say that whatever I – Kishore Chulani – say here on BarrioSiete represents the views of BarrioSiete as well as constitute the views of Silver, Buraot, Bluepanjeet, Reyna Elena, etc?
Mali, hindi ba? So likewise, when you have a beef with Carlito for whatever kabastusans he said, your beef should be only with him for his personal attacks against you. Bakit mo naman idadamay ang buong site at pati na rin ang ibang mga tao like ChinoF (whom you commented on somewhere else e wala naman yatang ginawa ang bata kontra sa yo) or FreeSince? Kumbaga, ang dami mong dinamay e hindi naman yata sila kasama doon sa problema mo with Carlito.
—You said “But if anyone has been a bully here, it’s Benign0 and BongV.”
How so? By pointing out to you the fallacies of your logic or lack thereof?
—You said “Carlito” claims to have met me but I wouldn’t say that I necessarily believe him, sorry. I don’t get the sense that too many people do either. He certainly was incapable of giving any proof of having met me, just like Bong. But it’s not as if “b..ch” and “po…k” was the only rude thing I heard from those guys anyway;”
Yan ka na naman, Lila. Lumping in the outsider with the site authors. Have you seen a single article written by this Carlito guy? By saying “rude thing I heard from THOSE GUYS”, you’re clearly lumping him with people who didn’t say anything like those. Also, as far as I remember reading, BongV doesn’t seem to have mentioned anything about knowing you personally, but rather more like something about your mom and his mom. Rotary ba o Toastmasters? I forget.
—You said “The question is: why r they so aggressive towards others just because of what they believe?”
Teka, teka, hindi ba IKAW rin you’re also aggressive? As far as I know, di naman aabot sa ganito kung hindi ka aggressive eh. Case in point: your treatment of Rochelle Sy Chua. Sabihin nating may punto ka, but you were being too aggressive, don’t you think?
As far as I know, Benign0 and BongV are sticklers for logic, so kung problema ang reasoning mo, automatically that would be mentioned. Is that aggression?
—You said: “When Benedict got upset with me, I wasn’t even talking to him”
How did he get upset with you? Proof please. Or maybe he exposed something wrong with your logic, Lila.
—You said “Let’s face it: many AP people can’t stand anyone who doesn’t see the world the way they do (even if Free is for Satur and Bong is for Gordon; ideological distinctions notwithstanding, they both feel they represent the margin…).”
Teka, contradiction yata yan. You know fully well that anti-pinoy is against censorship that’s why they DON’T censor. In fact, that’s actually what your beef is with them: di sila nagcecensor at nagdedelete ng posts. (However, if something is not to your liking, you are FREE to disagree with it and counter it and no one will censor you or delete your comments)
So how can you say that the anti-pinoy people “can’t stand anyone who doesn’t see the world the way they do.”
They obviously can. Di sila nagce-censor eh. They will tear illogical arguments apart and probably ridicule the lack of logic in it, but they can stand dissent, Lila. Kaya nga no moderation, no deletion, no censorship sa anti-pinoy eh.
—You said: “So perhaps my family name is a bigger issue for u than it is for me.”
I think the main idea is that if you don’t think your ideas carefully, you will end up with fallacious ideas that will yield wrong results. And because of the name you bear, maraming susunod sa yo sa maling idea mo. That’s why you have the responsibility to make correct choices, Lila. You’re not just Lila. You’re Lila Ramos-Shahani (not to mention your connections to policy makers). Make one policy mistake and people take your word for it, mali rin sila. You can be a messiah leading many towards salvation or you can be a pied piper who leads many towards their demise off a cliff.
—You said “Once again (in case it’s still not clear), there r specific people in AP who I think r unnaturally aggressive (incidentally, a great many people share that view).”
Aggressive doesn’t necessarily mean having wrong views. How about you looking at your own behavior for a change, Lila? E actually aggressive ka rin, ah. Case in point: Rochelle. You could have done a better job there, Lila. And yes, anti-pinoy. How you engaged the different personalities there on FV shows that you yourself are unnaturally aggressive. Kada google sa yo puro conflict, even that letter of yours to your uncle was aggressive.
—You said: “In FV, if someone posts a comment under your blog u deem to be offensive, u r entitled/expected to moderate them or post a comment in response.”
That’s exactly the reason that the anti-pinoy people created their site and made a no-censorship policy. It’s for you to slug it out logically. Yes, there are aggressive people on both sides (especially on some really controversial topics where people who don’t agree with the articles post really nasty stuff), but that’s the way the Pinas is, right? You should realize, therefore, that Pinoy online forums just happen to be a microcosm of the Philippines. Chaotic and unruly, ganun din sa uncensored forums.
Now, just because FV has such a policy, do you think other blogs like anti-pinoy should too? I don’t think so. anti-pinoy has authors who most probably have day jobs and yet are so busy writing articles everyday (see how many articles they come up with everyday?) that they don’t care much to do censorship on their sites. Besides, they’re against censorship because that’s what they faced in other sites like FV and yes even here.
If you’re still hung up on that apparently jilted wannabe-suitor Carlito, if I’m not mistaken I remember na pinagalitan nga ni Ilda si Carlito. Ok, they didn’t delete his comments. But that’s because they don’t believe in deleting.
On the other hand, if there are comments that you want deleted, I think you can request for them to be deleted, but you have to directly request the blog owner. Now you know who that is. Kelangan siguro mag-make-amends ka muna and then you can request for the offending comments to be deleted.
Now, what’s the problem?
Again, it’s this unresolved issue of your continued unfair lumping together of visitors and the site, the site’s authors, and site owner. I ask you once again: Since I am posting in BarrioSiete as a visitor, would it be fair to BarrioSiete and to its main authors (and site owner) if you blame all of them for whatever offensive comments I may leave here?
* Disclaimer: I’m not promoting anti-pinoy. I just think that spelling out the site name keeps me out of trouble because if I say “AP”, baka magalit ang Associated Press kasi AP ang acronym nila. If I say “the antipinoy people”, baka magalit ang mga taga kabilang barrio, because they said in their ABOUT page that they are AGAINST the antipinoy and that the antipinoy is the person who impedes Pinoy progress. Kaya ayan, I’m just being safe!
For all Kishore Chulani’s ramblings against Lila Shahani it is nothing but a ploy to promote his favored blog. Just look at the number of times that website’s name is highlighted. By the way is Kishore Chulani your real name? At least I an certain when LILA WRITES IT IS HER I AM LISTENING TO. And such assurance is comforting.
Totoo iyan, Caloy. Pwede ba, Kishore, promote your blog by the QUALITY of its writing rather than generating conflicts? I already explained that the proto-human comment, as well as the person who claims to know me (so why doesn’t he prove it?
), were not the ONLY examples of rudeness from AP: as I noted, there were many others. If I wanna observe that many folks in AP r rude, that’s my prerogative.
I already used the word “UNDER.” That’s pretty specific. Nothing disingenuous about that at all. That’s exactly where the comment was.
If Reynz, say, wrote a post about x and someone commenting under his post started saying objectionable things about y, Reynz probably wouldn’t censor the comment but he would at least have SAID SOMETHING in response, pointing out that it was unnecessarily rude. The only point I’m making is that there is a marked difference between AP and FV/B7. Whether it is writers or commenters in AP who made those remarks above (some were writers and some were commenters), the fact is that AP TOLERATES xenophobic, sexist and homophobic statements more than most sites I can think of. My only point is that u guys TOLERATE INTOLERANCE.
Iya is going to have to come up with a better argument than calling Noy supporters “stupid.” Even in a high school class, that’s not considered to be an argument, sorry.
Your opinion of Alexa ratings is irrelevant to me: frankly, I don’t even bother to follow those figures. I write because I believe in sharing ideas, and like to read people whose ideas I respect. If I were into popularity, I wouldn’t have written half of the things I’ve written (and I certainly wouldn’t be in grad school). I maintain that, if u write sincerely, you’ll get readers anyway. I’m happy to say I have a lot of people following my blog, even tho I’ve just begun in the blogosphere. So popularity (or lack thereof) just happens, whether u plan it or not. The main thing is to focus on the writing. At least that’s my view.
So: can we get back to the issues, “Mr Chulani” (it’s hard to take seriously someone who’s afraid to use his real name, sorry)? As a Gordon supporter, why have u not responded to Buraot’s excellent posts on Dick Gordon? Why have none of u? And what do u have to say about his desire to pardon a terrorist group like Abu Sayyaf? Isn’t that mercenary? I mean, Abu is hardly MILF or MNLF, is it? So let’s not waste time on this interpersonal stuff (I’m become bored and indifferent to it at this point; besides, it doesn’t look like we’re going to agree anyway): in the larger scheme of things, it’s pretty irrelevant. I’m not a fan of AP, you’re not a fan of FV/B7, so that’s fine; who cares? Next? Since you’re here, why not focus on the IDEAS, as u claim u people want to do in the first place?
Lila Shahani:
—Totoo iyan, Caloy.
Hindi naman kaya Caloy = Carlito? Baka secret admirer mo, Lila.
—Pwede ba, Kishore, promote your blog by the QUALITY of its writing rather than generating conflicts?
It’s not my blog. I’m not an author. And I don’t own it. I’m a visitor.
—I already explained that the proto-human comment, as well as the person who claims to know me (so why doesn’t he prove it?
), were not the ONLY examples of rudeness from AP: as I noted, there were many others. If I wanna observe that many folks in AP r rude, that’s my prerogative.
The point again, Lila, is that the rudeness of visitors does not reflect the site itself. Again, if I wrote something rude against you here on BarrioSiete, will you take it against BarrioSiete or against Reyna or the other authors? Hindi di ba?
So please be consistent, Lila. Sayang lang ang doctorate mo kung illogical ka.
As for the mention of Alexa, the point you clearly missed is that the stats prove that anti-pinoy has a lot of visitors.
What that means is that any weirdo that visits the site is free to comment and the site does not censor or delete comments. So if some ex-manliligaw or stalker of yours leaves a comment, wala nang kinalaman ang site dyan.
And let me make a comment about the difference between anti-pinoy and FV and BarrioSiete:
Essentially, FV and Barriosiete are the same in that both skewer their opponents. Look at what you and several others did to me and to several names of anti-pinoy people who were mentioned. You and they skewered us, some called us names, some made up stories about others, etc.
The only difference really is that FV and BarrioSiete are both predominantly pro-Noynoy, while anti-pinoy is predominantly anti-Noynoy.
Is it pro-Gordon, maybe most people there are. But I’ve seen ChinoF declare his devotion to Perlas.
In short, and please lang Reyna – this is just my observation, not an insult or anything – FV and BarrioSiete are sites where most of the people believe in voting based on family name and personality and/or connection/close relation to someone important (like Cory), while in anti-pinoy, most of the site authors as well as some mainstay visitors pride themselves in being objective and basing their choices not on personality, but on merit, competence, track record, and policy-platform.
In short, pareho lang naman ang general behavior ng mga tao eh. Different sides nga lang (and not to mention, zero censorship sa kabila).
(FV is notorious for censorship of opposing views. When Manuel Buencamino typed out a lot of expletives, ok lang sa kanila, but when many of us questioned his ideas, moderated kami at dinelete pa ang comments namin.)
* Disclaimer: I’m not promoting anti-pinoy. I just think that spelling out the site name keeps me out of trouble because if I say “AP”, baka magalit ang Associated Press kasi AP ang acronym nila. If I say “the antipinoy people”, baka magalit ang mga taga kabilang barrio, because they said in their ABOUT page that they are AGAINST the antipinoy and that the antipinoy is the person who impedes Pinoy progress. Kaya ayan, I’m just being safe!
In short, and please lang Reyna – this is just my observation, not an insult or anything – FV and BarrioSiete are sites where most of the people believe in voting based on family name and personality and/or connection/close relation to someone important (like Cory), while in anti-pinoy, most of the site authors as well as some mainstay visitors pride themselves in being objective and basing their choices not on personality, but on merit, competence, track record, and policy-platform.
I’m alright with your observation. However, you should realize that if Anti Pinoy did not go on a personal attack, there would have been an ongoing good discussion on issues here. Anti Pinoy ang unang umarangkada nang personal attacks eh.
Given na yong heated arguments but things like the bitch and the bombay – that should have been moderated dahil that’s uncalled for anymore especially sa Anti Pinoy that you pride to only discuss issues – wasn’t that going against what you guys are trying to espouse?
To a certain extent, there should be a level of moderation pag dumating sa point na ganun, especially when you guys seems to espouse curtailment of rights. In fact, hindi ko makalimutan ang comments ni iya or ilda syang “Democracy my ass” – it doesn’t add up.
But i can discern.
Sa kakabasa ko nang palitan ninyo ni Lila, it seemed to me that there is more to this that we believed issues na awayan.
Mukhang you are talking about some “broken hearts” here, kaya mahirap sumabay sa awayan na to… something that happened in the past which was pointed out by (was it) Carlo above.
Reynz,
Hindi ko alam lahat ng details, but from what I know, the skewering often happens as a result of provocation. Just as in FV, nagsimula yung antipinoy site due to banning/deletion, they also would not have done an attack on you/B7 if there had been no banning/deletion and an attack done on them. At least yun ang na-observe ko sa kanila.
Back to “b..ch”, yun, I think that’s part of where the problem is. Hindi naman associated with the site yung nagpost ng ganyang comment. Plus, Ilda did in fact reprimand him.
My suggestion is that if Lila wants that taken down she can politely request the site owner to have it deleted if need be.
Walang full-time moderators ang antipinoy site, from what I can see, so if there’s a need to get something deleted because something said is damaging to the person involved or to his or her loved ones, one may contact the site owner.
By the way, di ko makita yung may “Bombay” reference. Was that taken down or deleted by any chance?
Basta for me, and I have nothing to do with the policy-making, I understand that the founders are allergic to censorship because of the censorship they experienced in the past. And along with that indeed came an influx of people from FV (including me) who were equally silenced there. Some of those same ex-FV visitors were probably so happy to see a site where their views are no longer in the minority and that their comments freely come in kaya ayan, trigger-happy na.
I think such behavior is natural in the first few months after these visitors experienced the oppressive environments they used to be in. Eventually, mawawala din yan.
Yung “broken hearts” nga pala, that’s just speculation on my part. No one knows the real motivations of that guy, pero of course, ang ganyan klaseng matinding galit ni Carlito can either be because of “busted” or “di niya ako inimbita sa b-day niya e akala ko friends kami” or “nangutang pero di nagbayad” or some other personal slight.
Wrong. Anti-Pinoy personal attacks to me were already ongoing and I still have not banned them. As I have said, and you could check the link I gave, I banned BongV because they now resorted to creating several usernames under 1 IP (it’s in the blog, I captured it). We have policies on trolls. My statement of not banning them while the attacks were ongoing can be corroborated by the dates of their attack entries and my responses.
No clue what you’re saying here.
If that’s your policy on moderation, then that’s not being responsible. That’s just the way I see it. Whereas here in B7, I offer no apologies to continue to block trolls and hateful comments. Minsan me nakakalagpas, but if caught, immediately deleted and moderated. I especially detest anonymous commenters who are so blatant with their hate comments yet they prefer to be anonymous. So we monitor them because we B7 writers are out there. We’re not anonymous.
Kung sino mang sira-ulo could always incite and create havoc and the admins job is to cop out and weed out them.
I’m curious though with the depth and how heated your arguments with Lila, I am getting the impression that it is YOU who were “hurt” in the “past”. That’s the impression I am getting…
it is a blog’s owner to be vigilant in monitoring comments made to his site. one of his foremost responsibilities is to delete feedback(s)that are inimical to the interests of the state such as seditious enunciations. personal attacks and character assasinations have to be closely moderated and once decided to be “unfounded” should be censored without hesitation. letting every line pass in the blog without due care is an invitation to possible criminal action from the state and the public.
the above observation was spurred by kishore’s declaration:
What that means is that any weirdo that visits the site is free to comment and the site does not censor or delete comments. So if some ex-manliligaw or stalker of yours leaves a comment, wala nang kinalaman ang site dyan.
i am not a secret but an open admirer of lila. it will be a thrill to meet her in person one day.
hayst Caloy, AMEN.
i angered these “gentle”men from anti pinoy when i blocked them, but we have proof – it’s not true that we blocked them just becase we disagree with them.
i’ve been very nice with benigno ever – ever – eversince, he even dressed me with the emperor’s clothes and i did not even take it that negatively.
nagsimula to with my yellow color, i said “my” because not all of us here in B7 are pro-noynoy.
ever since, we in B7 are very strict on trolls, and disgusting comments. eto nga mga trolls nang dona victorina di makapasok even comments nang AIDS stricken HIV carrier na Brian Gorrel, i have to watch out before we approve
sabi nga ni Kutz, your rights cease to exist once the rest of the pack gets hurt by your weapon or sum’tin hahaha
and yes – i felt that deep within these fights mukhang merong broken heart who can’t let go. i wish they just move on na lang. sorry sa comment ko.