The Hacienda Luisita blame
And so Noynoy wants out of Hacienda Luisita. You can read the entire article here: Noynoy wants out of Hacienda Luisita.
Hacienda Luisita is being used by the anti-Noynoy camp to demolish his presidential aspirations. As a matter of fact, I was in part, also swayed and/or had initial belief that all along they were the majority shareholders. In other words, once you mention the phrase Hacienda Luisita equals the Aquinos.
Not.
The news was very revealing. This was the very 1st time I found out that President Cory Aquino divested her ownership upon assumption of Presidency. I wonder how the anti-Noynoy camp would describe this act of President Cory Aquino. What happened to the media reporting? Why now?
In this article, Noynoy said:
Also my ownership is a very small percentage,” he said. Aquino also expressed belief the issue was being politicized and that he was being made to appear as someone who lacked genuine concern for the farmers. (Source: Philstar)
Of course the anti-Noynoy camp would frame their use of the Hacienda Luisita issue as if Noynoy Aquino was directly responsible for all the insanities that happened at Hacienda Luisita.
Now, here’s the thing: compare this one with the direct involvement of some of these candidates on corruption issues that hugged the headlines. Care to name some of the names of these candidates along with the notorious scandals?
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First apak (base) muna dito sa Hasyenda hehe…
Ano ba masasabi ko – dirty politics testing Pinoy’s intelligence, even to the point of now insulting. Trapos don’t really like Filipinos to grow up or else they can choose intelligently. Konsensya at intelligence ko na lang sundin ko…
what i find weird is that, in the other thread on the discussion with those guys from kaVilang Varrio, they’re looking for change. i don’t see any change from these dirty tricks at all! it’s really more of the same if not WORSE of the same.
I guess it’s back to some Darwinian fashion of survival and competition – the force of desire for change is equal to the force of the resistance against it. Kahit papano, may mangilan-ilang forces pa rin na gustong magtagumpay at kumbinsihin ang karamihan na they are fitter for survival at hindi pa panahon na mag-mutate ang Pinoy. And they like to convince themselves that the tactic is not basic, aggressive, apelike, animal instinct. Ipakaluluwa ko kaya kayo kay Darwin, sige kayo…
ditto dFish ditto
after seeing the noynoy video and seen its cheesy soppy vacuousness and kabaduyan.. it has gotten really low indeed
Asus, hacienda luisita lang ang kayang ibato ng mga yan. I may not be for Noynoy but I find these dirty schemes to be unfair. Hello, as if ang babango din ng mga candidates nila. As if naman!
Pag may mabaho, may garbage. Pabantutan na lang ng garbage in their closets and pustahan, mas mabaho pa ang garbage ng mga attackers na yan kesa dun sa candidate and supporters na tinitira nila.
Ang crude ng propaganda methods nila. Barok na barok ang style. Talo pa ang mga chismosa sa kanto namen na mahilig manira ng kapwa nila. E di kung better ang candidate nila in their own perception, why not present a better platform rather than launching nasty attacks against the other party. Halatang mga desperate for votes and attention ang mga kumag.
Ang tatanga ng mga methods nila. Ewwww.
And if I am not mistaken, Cojuangco po kaya ang Hacienda Luisita, hindi Aquino. Pucha, daming tanga talaga sa Pilipinas. Grrr. Please send them back sa classroom para mare-educate. Grrr.
Gulong ng buhay nga naman talaga.
As the article stated:
Perhaps the real bogeyman here is The Media – how powerful a force of subversion of the Truth that we have made it into (under the flag of “Press Freedom”). It’s ironic that the same trial-by-media that the so-called “opposition” often wields against Big Bad Government also had victimised Noynoy’s own family and now sticks like a barnacle to his own bid for the presidency.
And now here he is, invoking the full force of his sister’s celebrity and the enlisting the obliging resources of the countries biggest Media networks — ABS-CBN and GMA — to prop up his vacuous campaign.
Funny too how Noynoy makes out that they , considering that he himself offers no solution framework nor any kind of execution plan that will characterise his 2010-2016 government.
Noynoy is not even the decision maker here in the first place, at least thats how i was reading it. but anti-noynoy camp pushes it to be HIS.
and what’s FUNNIER benigno was the constant questioning you and BongV on where the change is when these smear campaign and dirty tricks are more of the same and even WORSE of the same. again as in my previous entry – whey resort to dirty tricks if your candidate do truly have some strong credentials to boot?
so now the question becomes, does your real candidate really offers the CHANGE that we are looking for??? because what i am seeing is definitely not change no matter how you intellectualize it.
Noynoy wants out of Hacienda Luisita? Para ano? To extricate his family from their responsibility to the farmers? What about the victims? Hay naku! maghuhugas kamay lang siya!
You have to read the article. I don’t think Noynoy can decide on this alone – he said, siblings and relatives. He said he’s got a very small ownership percentage. How could he decide? Please try to read the article on the link.
“You have to read the article. I don’t think Noynoy can decide on this alone – he said, siblings and relatives. He said he’s got a very small ownership percentage. How could he decide? Please try to read the article on the link.”
Renyz,
we know that the Hacienda Luisita is a corporation. But Noynoy being a PUBLIC SERVANT he could have done something to lessen the aggravation of those laborers. But instead of doing so, he let kris aquino boasted that her jewels came from the Hacienda.
Knowing these facts people can’t help to feel sorry for those laborers.
about the interview where Noynoy answered this issue, i want to read it, or hear it if your have a link…
n_n
can you give me a link on where you get this information so i can verify? i can’t seem to imagine noynoy making that decision of asking Kris boast her jewelry when that’s totally out of whack to the issue. maybe you’re just over padding your explanation? i’d believe you if you give me the link.
also, as i have said, it’s really better that you read the link to where the basis of my write up. otherwise sesemplang lang ang usapan naten.
Simpleng tanong lang yan -
If you can’t even clean your own backyard, how can you clean the country’s backyard?
exactly the whole purpose of the smear campaign BongV. to make it appear as if this is Noynoy’s own doing and that he could single handedly make a decision, push a button, reboot and it’s cleaned up.
and you are asking for change. wow.
how can you claim advocacy for the country’s poor when in your very own family business you didn’t advocate for them.
at the the time when the “pro-poor”-ness was needed = it wasn’t there. Instead we had the Yellow Jesus.
noynoy’s credibility = zero.
that’s not true. that was part of the negative ad campaign. who has credibility? Villar? Erap? If you think Noynoy’s credibility is zero, these guys are in the negative.
that’s not true. that was part of the negative ad campaign.
Bong, i deleted the article pasted. the link above is good enough. Wag mo namang gawing repository nang newspaper articles ang blog namen. ~La Kapitana
***
the apple does not fall far from the tree
***
who has credibility? Villar? Erap? If you think Noynoy’s credibility is zero, these guys are in the negative.
reynz,
i don’t really care about this hacienda luisita issue. with that out of the way let me just say that it’s very clear your idea of bringing about change is to blindly follow your candidate of choice whether that’s noynoy or whomever. cge na nga.
btw, in case you still think i already have a candidate you can visit my blog and to see proof na wala pa akong kandidato. my blog is all about automated elections yun lang. the only candidate you’ll see there is gordon and it’s just one post of a youtube clip of an old automated election ad. that’s all. so i hope enough of this sweeping generalization that all of us who are calling for noynoy’s platforms are all supporters of villar or some other candidate or worse paid hacks. mind conditioning lang din yan on your part.
anyway just wanted to say that.
again as i said ala ako pakialam diyan sa hacienda luisita issue na iyan. plataporma lang hanap ko kay noynoy at kung sino pa mang kandidato. if you see this as nothing more than a traditional political tactic then i don’t what new politics is anymore. i certainly don’t see it in how you deflect a legitimate suggestion for all of us to call for the immediate release of the candidates’ platforms now since they’re all coming out with political ads anyway.
o sa mga sisilip sa blog ko… bago mangutya sa readership nito if ever ako na mismo magsasabi ala ako masyadong readers pa. kulelat. near zero. last month ko lang kasi binuksan ito and apparently talagang mas gusto pa ng pilipino magsearch about wowowee kaysa information about the automated elections.
am with you botomoto, hacienda luisita is a difficult problem and the issues are much problematic like CARP itself and i will probably never understand these whole agrarian reform problems.
my focus on this entry is completely different given what i have just learned in that news and the manipulative tactics by anti-aquino camp to make it appear – as what BongV has now written in his comment – that this was Noynoy’s own doing and so therefore he holds the key. which is WRONG. these are just the same old dirty tricks
reynz,
still if the issue (hacienda luisita) is brought up it should still be viewed as a legitimate issue that the aquino should sufficiently address. dismissing it with solid counter-arguments is ok but simply dismissing it as mudslinging (which may or may not be true) is not. just a thought.
botomoto,
if you read the article, i don’t think he is dismissing the issue, it says right there that he’s actually addressing them – he’s just not the person.
the thing is, the anti-aquino camp frames the questioning in such a manner as to show that Noynoy is directly involved in all of these – haller! this is the trick and this is what Noynoy has to be careful about
i’m not really familiar with the details but i think the real issue here is whether or not noynoy will provide the landed class protection. this is a real concern actually that he needs to specifically address by way of a platform. he needs to issue a clear stand on land reform. if he doesn’t this issue will certainly stick with him for the rest of his political career.
for sure botomoto, he definitely has to address this issue. i’ve said this many times both on ellen’s post and in the platform thread.
but the point i’m driving at is the dirty tricks when noynoy is not even directly involved but the anti-noynoy camps are tweaking and framing it to make it appear that he is. what about villar on c5? that’s direct involvement right? what about erap? a lot of direct involvement in there. and so and so forth.
That’s the same thing Pontius Pilate said.
Right BongV, and you expect me to believe you?
Reinz:
You come to your conclusions based on the facts (and you have the option of using imaginary facts like Joseph Goebbels and company peddled, start off with a vacuous music video).
***
Not being “directly involved” is a cop-out and smacks of lackluster whimpy spineless leadership.
As the KMP puts its Challenge to Noynoy
The group is also demanding Sen. Benigno “Noynoy” Aquino III to act decisively in favor of the agri-workers. Sen. Aquino has claimed that he has only 1/32 control of the HLI and hinted that his family would “leave” the hacienda.
“As of now, we are still waiting for Sen. Aquino to do the right thing, which is to convince his family to distribute the lands to the legitimate owners, the agri-workers who developed it. As he is running for president, being indecisive and favoring his family’s vested interest are not of the qualities the Filipino people would want for a president, actually the people would hate that,” said Ramos.
KMP also reminded that there is still no justice for the victims of the Hacienda Luisita massacre. To date, the Cojuangcos were involved in two historical massacres killing Filipino peasants calling for genuine land reform, the first was the Mendiola Massacre on January 22, 1987 during President Aquino’s term.
“Sen. Aquino is facing a heavy roadblock on the issue of Hacienda Luisita, his inaction on the issue of land and justice would totally lead to his loss on the presidential elections. The issue of Hacienda Luisita would not wither away, he should act determined and for the interest of the poor peasants, actually the whole country even the world is on watch on the issue,” said Ramos.
***
He can’t even convince his own family (or his own family does not even respect him) what makes you think the other oligarchs will be convinced or will have his respect either. Noynoy is a stooge of the oligarchs.
You’ll have to direct that question to those who are actually solidly backing up a candidate, Mr. Reynz.
If you think about it, those who have a specific candidate in mind have a real motive to do smear campaigns, whereas those who are still in the process of evaluating are more inclined to intellectualise (which if you think about it was the whole original point of being given the right to vote).
Besides, you pretty much sow what you reap.
Noynoy’s campaign is hinged on the past — his parents’ illustrious record. So why be surprised if the attack on his candidacy would also be something coming out from the past as well and directed at his family (therefore rubbing off on him by the very association with said family that he built his campaign upon)?
Now if his campaign derived its equity more from the the future (prospective) rather than one hinged on the past (retrospective), then the whole political “debate” would be a whole different ballgame now, wouldn’t it?
Something to think about, mate.
You’re a finance guy. When evaluating an investment, the company track record is important. But the more crucial pieces of information come from what the future holds for said investment (i.e. future cashflows, future revenue streams, etc.).
A vote for a candidate is an INVESTMENT in our future. Let’s not fixate ourselves with the past. Noynoy brought this upon himself by using his pedigree (past equity) to underpin his campaign instead of demonstrating how he plans to build future equity for us.
Exactly – that’s the tactic when you openly support a candidate which is expected which is why it’s better to be ahhh… we’re still studying… yet behind it all it’s all ok for you all these dirty tricks but you have some methodologies of selection process. think about it, it doesnt reconcile.
yeah benigno, you don’t have to lecture me on finance. as far as i know, even if villar camp is now accusing Noynoy of corruption, it won’t stick.
Noynoy is not even directly involved here. Whereas your candidates (by deduction) have bagggage worse than that of Noynoy. Those are bad investments.
and so most of my entries are smear campaigns to who benigno? all of the above except Noynoy?
yes. all of the above except noynoy.
everyone, be aware of the fallacy of poisoning the well that is all over this discussion thread.
be informed. see what “poisoning the well” is by visiting the link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well
don’t forget,
double your pleasure
it’s the usual. shoot the messenger and bottom line.
indeed!
so to take on the fallacy of poisoning the well, the issues should still be addressed here regardless of whether or not it is a smear campaign. addressing the hacienda luisita issue directly should dispel any attacks on noynoy, and avoidance of it fans the flames, wouldn’t you agree?
even villar looks more and more suspect as he continues to dodge the c5 double insertion allegations.
don’t forget,
double your pleasure
let me call noynoy and tell him to address this one…
hold on….
~~ ~~ ~~ ~~
ahhh. nope. don’t have his num.
if you don’t have his number, how do you make sure he pays your bill?
don’t forget,
double your pleasure
Presidents are required to divest once they assume the presidency. It was not only Cory who did it. It’s in the law.
yun nga lang they only divest “on paper” : )
“by paper”
how’d you know? and what was your basis? hearsay?
not referring specifically to the aquinos.
why? can we seriously believe 100% of politicians or government officials divest from their companies? the word dummy comes to mind.
of course botomoto. who else popularized that stupid dummy enterprises. in fact today, it’s not just the arroyos but most congressman and senators yata have FOUNDATIONS, i heard that from Mikey Arroyo’s interview.
but if you tell me that the Aquino’s have engaged in dummy corp to engage in illegitimate businesses like the arroyos or the marcoses or any of the senators stuck in some senate investigations, i’d have to rely on the fact that cory is probably incorruptible and i could only hope that his son is likewise the same. i don’t know if that answer is good enough for you.
as i said i wasn’t really referring to the aquinos. but i guess we can never really tell, can we? in any case i don’t think honesty if that’s all that will be offered will do us much good. honesty coupled with competence, vision, concrete plans, ability etc well that can do wonders.
HONESTY it of utmost importance to me, for every single leader except pro’lly Cory Aquino, continually betray us with our hopes.
honesty is important to me as well.. but it does not stop with honesty..
what am going to do with an honest but incompetent bozo who will increase the Gini coefficient, who will keep the oligarch dominated economic structure.. that’s not change.. that’s protecting the status quo
reynz,
it’s important to me too of course. but i’m looking for other qualities as well not just that. so the sooner noynoy and the other candidates show us what they’re really made of the better.
thank you for that information jonas. i read that on the link. what i’m getting from it is that it diluted their ownership which was what noynoy was saying in the article that he’s got very small percentage
Mr. reynz you seem have confused me for someone who gives a rat’s arse about who will be president after 2010.
I’m just here to push a focus on platforms and issues in the currently vacuous National “Debate”. Noynoy just happens to stick as an unfortunate target (for me) out because (a) he is popular, and (b) he offers no substance. Nothing personal, dude.
I wrote a piece back in August of 2008 describing my personal position on what the presidency means to the future prospects of Pinoys. The following excerpt is the kernel of that piece:
Kung baga, there is no convincing evidence showing that there is a strong correlation between the nature of the person sitting in Malacanang and the fortunes of the Filipino people as a whole.
That’s not to say that there is no point to electing a president. There potentially could be. And that point will come about only when people apply a bit more maturity not only in the way they evaluate their candidates but also in the way they hold him/her accountable on the basis of an intelligent commitment (baseline against a detailed platform) made during his/her campaign.
Got it benigno. I follow you. Everyone else who’s next in line sings the hope mantra.
So let me ask you what I have asked BongV.
So it’s not Noynoy. He’s got no substance. He’s got no platform. He’s popular therefore not Presidential.
WHO SHOULD WE VOTE FOR?
for me, i’d say let’s compare their platforms first then decide. if noynoy’s still the one by then then he’s the one. at least a well informed decision is better than a hunch or gut feel choice. but that’s just me.
and who told you that i based my decision on hunch and gut?
reynz,
i didn’t say that about you. it was just a general statement. you gotta admit a lot of people are like that.
That’s a personal choice we all have to make, Mr. reynz and I consider it to be beside the points I make publicly. So let’s not go there, shall we (at least as far as the discussion with me is concerned)?
right.
attack Noynoy as being not, yet none of you can offer an alternative.
lovely indeed.
Ay vonggah ang debeyt, kakahiyang makisawsaw. *audience mode*
I nominate yung kapitbahay ko sa Cotabato, hehehehe, walang asyenda yung kaya di maa accuse na walang simpatya sa mahihirap! May platform yun, saka elevator shoes, kintab pa nga eh~
Eto opinyon ko: If I were to vote sa Pinas, I will vote for Erap, HAHAHAHAHA!!! Wala lang…anlabo na kasi ng Pinas mula sa economic hanggang peace and order, alang nangyayari. Eh si Erap, malabo rin, tumatanda yata ng paurong! Hopeless ba. Eh di ba ang mga Pilipino nagkakaisa pag may major disaster? Ayun, si Erap ang disaster na unifying force ng Philippine spirit, o davah? Kumbaga sa Matematiks sa barrio namin negatib taymis negatib ekwals pasitib, yeeyyyy! Meron pa: negatib didbay didbay negatib ekwals pasitib ulet, yeeeyy! Erap para kening maeerap!
Reinz:
In defining – “who is”, it would be safe ti say you start off with, “who is not”, di ba?
I have my candidate. Bat’ di mo ilabas ang candidate mo para makilatis? Takot because they could not offer anything better than what Noynoy represents?
Reynz naman:
need you be reminded of my four KPIs and plural poles
[...] Read full post here of The Hacienda Luisita blame [...]
@benign0, says” That’s a personal choice we all have to make, Mr. reynz and I consider it to be beside the points I make publicly. So let’s not go there, shall we (at least as far as the discussion with me is concerned)?”
- ang hirap sa inyo pag na korner na kayo ni Reynz e tamang iwas-pusoy kayo! hahaha!
on the contrary, that’s not iwas-pusoy – the conclusion that “noynoy is not” is just a starting point for “who is” in the vetting process.
read my lips – it’s the process
i read your lips BongV – it’s the process. The process that i listed on my current entry.
reinz:
that’s YOUR process. single attribute (honesty), dual candidate (Noynoy vs Villar) comparison.
MY process involves four attributes (honesty, proven ability, innovation, and comprehensive relevant platform) – plurality of Candidates ( Noynoy, Villar, Erap, Escudero, Perlas)
just to make sure there is no misunderstanding or the fallacy of equivocation on the word “process” – you have “YOUR process”.. i have “MY process” – and while they have the word process attached to it, they substance is different.
yeah Leo.
their job really is just attack the frontrunner and look for a break. ganun lang ang focus nang mga to, to a point na minsan pati discussion namen is already a nuisance. i seem to feel that they were sent here by somebody hahaha
that’s mistaken:
all the candidates are submitted to the same rigorous vetting process – and all are asked – where’s your platform – same was asked of Villar, Escudero, Estrada, and Perlas – why should Noynoy be any different. Of the five, only Perlas had a credible platform – I may not agree with some of Perlas positions but at least he has the courage to define what he stands for.
Those other frontrunners don’t have the balls to define what they stand for. Puro vacuous statements that pander to the lowest common denominator – anticorruption. it’s like hello…. kayong lahat puro anticorruption… where’s your detailed platform on handling corruption and governance.. aba’y nauutal at nagmimistulang mga mangmang
Go B7!
Mabuhay ang reyna! Hahha!
Semplang silang lahat…sorry na lang.
naku berting! me fans pala ako dito hehehe, bitbit ka plakard hehe
Ang duduwag naman ng mga to.
Panay ang lait at tira niyo kay Noynoy, hindi niyo naman ma-amin kung sino ang iboboto niyo.
identifying that noynoy is “not the one” is a good starting point as any in identifying “who is” and “who is not”.
collect and select.. elimination process… evaluation process… identifying the best fit… same same same… unless it’s the first time you heard about actually thinking it through (as opposed to… feel na feel)
and you truly believe that negative ad attack campaign will truly work BongV, right? it’s not a good convincing power. these tactics are very old and i for one am not a fan of it.
a matter of perception reinz – how can revealing the facts be negative – if it’s the truth, it sets the people free from their delusion or they can persist in their delusion – choose your own poison ika nga
Naku, naku…climbing na climbing na dito hehehe. Basta ako hindi ako boboto sa nuisance candidate… Ang mga tanong: (1)sino iboboto nyo na may winnability (hindi nuisance, kulit eh) candidate? (2)ano plataporma nya/nyo?
Kong Perlas kayo, e di perlas – e di nuisance ka/kayo loz!
haha i don’t know who perlas is. nothing against her/him but to me ang mga kandidato lang dito are the you know who
A candidate who has:
recently won the Manuel L. Quezon Award in recognition of his exemplary achievements as a Civil Society leader in the fields of Environmental Advocacy, Global Economic and Financial Management and Peace. Given on 21 August 2009.
won the Alternative Nobel Prize in 2003 “…for his outstanding efforts in educating civil society about the effects of corporate globalisation, and how alternatives to it can be implemented.”
The Global 500 Roll of Honour of the United Nations Environment Programme, the UNEP’s highest international award for environmental achievement, awarded in 1994.
awarded The Outstanding Filipino award in the field of agriculture in 1994.
conferred the Fr. William F. Masterson S.J. Award by the academic institution for his outstanding work as an agriculturist and of his invaluable contribution towards sustainable and environment-friendly agriculture in 1995
has written a book – http://www.amazon.com/Shaping-Globalization-Society-Cultural-Threefolding/dp/9719223308
ain’t a nuisance in my book.
he makes all the other candidates look like a nuisance.
reinz,
i’d like to say something nasty pero wag na lang. heto na lang. it was intellectually stimulating exchanging ideas with you on this post pero bigla naging kenkoy dahil sa mga tsewarewap. sana nakipagbalitaktakan na lang kanina para gumanda pa lalo usapan.
and btw winnability is a trapo concept.
@botomoto,
did i say something nasty on a personal level? if i did dahil sa init nang talakan dito let me know at ayusin ko, but for the most part, ini-iwasan kong bumagsak sa personal attacks ang mga comments dito dahil dun lang to nangyayari sa FV. alam ni benigno at ni bongV yan kaya ayoko nang pumunta dun.
also, given na to sa barrio about the kakenkyoyan and dahil bago ka, you are just finding this out. also, minsan, parating off topic. kung ano yong sinulat ko, iba ang pinag-uusapan. i allow that to. naging charaterization na yan dito.
bak to the topic. yes. sinabi na ni bongV yan na winnability is a trapo concept.
at sinagot ko na rin yan na if you are joining sa election without intent to win dahil ayaw mong maging trapo therefore nuisance ka.
if you delete the “winnability” sa election, hindi na election yun. diktatorial na yun.
oopps!
reinz,
what i meant about winnability is this. if you’re a voter that should be the least of your concern. meaning if after careful evaluation you conclude that a particular candidate is your choice then go and vote for him regardless of his winnability. meaning whether kulelat siya o hindi.
winnability should not be a voters concern. only the handlers of the cndidates or the candidates themselves should bother with this issue.
just imagine… what if for some reason your candidate’s “winnability” drops. will you not vote for him anymore just because of that and despite all the other factors that made you favor him in the first place.
heto pa… are you not aware that “winability” or the appearance of such can be manufactured. the use of surveys and trending comes to mind. so, what if a certain candidate is project as having low winnability when in fact marami pala talaga siyang supporters. if winnability was considered by all voters in their deciion then wala na talo na talaga ang kandidato nila.
so to put it simply. winnability is not a voter’s concern. that’s what i mean. ooops nahulog ang mouse.
btw, you’re not nasty at all.
o yah! mabait talaga itong si Kapitana! di ba Kapitana? *wink*
reinz,
in addition, winnability as a factor is clearly a trapo crutch in the sense that it automatically makes the whole system work in favor only for those who have the tools (could be guns, goons, gold) to position themselves in the spotlight.
eh gusto nga natin change. aside from calling for platforms, as voters we can effect change by ignoring winnability and considering other candidates who may also have potential but are just not as financially-able to buy airtime.
the traditional political system of this country has long been dominated by trapos who thrive in a setup that prevents deserving little guys from competing in a level playing field.
again i raise the hypothetical situation. what if for some magical reason noynoy’s standing among the candidates suddenly plummets? (i’m not saying that it will. hypothetical lang ito for the sake of argument.) iaabandon niyo na siya dahil di siya winnable?
@botomoto,
tama naman yong sinabi about winnability na it should not be the voters concern. thing is how do voters choose candidate? kahit ikaw am pretty sure me candidate ka na based on your personal judgement. but i would not insist anymore na ilabas mo.
but here’s the thing.
ang risk nung good & exemplary candidate na walang winnability is almost equivalent na hayaan mong maupo ang balikwang qualifications dahil you stuck to your good & exemplary candidate.
u get my point?
so at the same time na tumpak ang pagpili mo nang kandidato in all morality pa, unfortunately hindi yon ang ang magdadala sa kanya sa pasig.
and on the sides, si benigno so far lang naman ang ina=llow ko nang name calling ah! tinawag nya lahat nung noynoy supporters as stupid hahaha wag na nating dagdagan tuloy na lang naten ang usapan
reinz,
“ang risk nung good & exemplary candidate na walang winnability is almost equivalent na hayaan mong maupo ang balikwang qualifications dahil you stuck to your good & exemplary candidate.”
i don’t think this is logical. this can only be valid kung magiging dependent nga tayo masyado sa surveys and trending, which as i said can be manufactured. ever noticed that when politician x commission a survey siya ang mataas and when politician y does the same siya rin ang mataas?
besides what if dalawa lang ang malakas na naglalaban and to apply your example yung isang “good” per di winnable yung isa naman “evil” pero winnable. sino pipiliin mo? yung winnable pa rin pero evil?
let’s reverse it. “good” and winnable vs. “evil” and not winnable?
kaya nga my question is paano kung biglang bumaba ang winnability ni noynoy will you still support him?
“so at the same time na tumpak ang pagpili mo nang kandidato in all morality pa, unfortunately hindi yon ang ang magdadala sa kanya sa pasig.”
siguro nga unfortunately. pero are you convinced we cannot change the situation? i believe plataporma talaga dapat ang magdala sa kandidato sa pagkapanalo. dapat yun ang ineevaluate hindi ang personality o winnability. as far as i know sa napakaraming developed countries this is practically the norm. can we not evolve just as they did? dekada na ang tumatakbo na puro personality at winnability ang umiiral. change ang gusto natin di ba. o selective change lang ba ang hanap natin?
anyway i raise the question again, kung hindi na winnable si noynoy suporta ka pa rin sa kanya? i’m guessing you’ll say yes given your present conviction. but if that will be the case then what happened to winnability as one of your deciding factors?
ikaw naman ibinalik mo na naman sa kesyo may kandidato ako. isinusumpa ko sa diyos wala pa talaga akong kandidato. cross my heart. hope to die.
@botomoto,
mahirap sagutin ang mga hypothesis. sorry.
anyway, sorry to hear na you view the surveys as manufactured. i hope they’re not. wala akong alam how they come up with those numbers. if you could prove to us here that they’re manufactured, magandang maunawaan namen.
i understand your hold up on platform. parehas ang linya ninyong tatlo ni benigno and bongV.
maraming factors, natural or man-made ang kelangan i-consider. idealists versus realists and for me, walang kelangang palitan na situation other than i’d be happy na aalis na si gloria.
u guys just keep on insisting na we chose to support noynoy because kris is a moviestar (benigno), he is winnable (you) at nakalimutan ko na ang ki bong hahaha
reinz,
di naman accurate yan. i never said that noynoy is not presidentiable because of so and so reason. did i? alam ko hindi.
my only interest here is to raise the point that platforms are important and that we need it now tutal may mga ads na sila pinagkakakalat. and dahil may nagbanggit dito, that winnability is not a voters’ concern. yun lang. at the end of the day naman it’s you and only you who can really decide kung sino kursunada mo eh.
ang sa akin lang naman eh kung mas marami sana ang mananawagan para sa plataporma mas maganda sana. kahit papaano mababago ang takbo ng politika dito.
paborable rin naman kay noynoy kung sakaling mapunta sa mga naiisip na solusyon sa mga problema ang debate imbis na sa mga kapersonalan.
ok na ako dun sa platform issue mo botomoto, but i doubt na pinili nang 60% si noynoy because of the winnability factor dahil that was secondary.
and primary reason dun is nakarelate sila ki noynoy sa message of hope nya with the belief na hindi na tayo lolokohin nang mga impakto sa gobyerno.
over and over once na nakaupo me mga ibang agenda pala
now, given na nahatak ni noynoy ang 60%, the winnability comes in pero result lang yan nung he was able to come acrross a broad spectrum, right?
at sinagot ko na rin yan na if you are joining sa election without intent to win dahil ayaw mong maging trapo therefore nuisance ka.
Bong
one of your comment na me pagkahaba habang article, i put in moderation muna.
as i said, a link is good enough. kung si ellen tordesillas nga refuse to allow pasted articles sa blog nya ako pa? pero kung maiksi lang ang article ok lang saken.
i hope you understand and do not misconstrue na yah yah tinatago ni reyna ang truth. tigilan ako haha
oo nga naman….agree ako, kung sino ang manok mo dun ka! ibig bang sabihin kinukumbinsi ang mga reader dito sa barrio na bumoto sa manok nila? kaya nakikipag debate dito? tama si kapitana ilabas nyo rin ang baraha ninyo para makumbinsi nyo rin ang mga reader dito sa barrio….malay ninyo mag bago ang isip ng mga bumabasa at lumihis…ang kaso wala naman kayong clear na ipapakita….kaya sinasayang nyo lang ang pag tipa ninyo sa keyboard!
sa susunod…direct to the point na! labas nyo na manok nyo para ma himas din at mahalikan di ba? para fair naman kay kapitana! iisa si kapitana para sumagot ng pag batikos nyo kay Noynoy! actually he is doing this na wala namang kahit anong na rereceived kay Noynoy….so ang ibig sabihin lang nun…..iyan ang tunay na suporter ng isang kandidato! mabuhay ka Reyna Elena! yey!
annie,
on my part i’m not really convincing you to drop yur support for noynoy. i’m just appealing or requesting that you help encourage noynoy and even the other candidates to come out with their concrete, specific plans. that’s all.
as i said somewhere in one of the older posts, i may also support noynoy but not just yet. i want to know first what he plans to do exactly as in how exactly will he rid the government of corruption or how exactly will he improve the educational system.
look botomoto,bakit kayo nag aapura na malaman ang platamorma ni Noynoy agad, sabi nga paulit-ulit…..masyado pang maaga sa kampanya di ba? o.k, naanduon na ako, gusto nating malinawan talaga kung ano ang issue na ilalabas ni Noynoy! pero bakit nag aapura?? dahil gustong dungisan ng kalaban? katulad ng ginagawa nila ngayon? na binibungkal ang ari-arian ng Aquino? at humahanap ng butas para sirain ang pangalan ni Noynoy? actually alam nating lahat na iyan ay hindi solong ari-arian ni Noynoy! ang sabi nga kokonting porsiyento lang ang sa kanila dyan! parang latak na lang sila! hindi ako matalino, pero naiintidihan ko na, hindi lang si Noynoy ang dapat mag desisyon! o.k, o.k…ang tanong naman, wala ba syang impluwensya sa kanyang mga kamag-anak? ngayung sya ay tatakbong president? nasaan ang kanyang pamumuno nyan? sa kanyang kamag-anak lang hindi pa marinig ang kanyang boses di ba? Well, ang pinag-uusapan dito ay ang kanilang kapital sa negosyo na yan! at saka galing pa yan sa ninuno nila, at hindi lang sa Aquino yan kungdi sa Cojuangco.Kung baga sabit lang ang Aquino dito, wala talaga syang say dyan…oo, oo, ang sagot naman, kitam wala talaga syang magagawa! talagang wala! kaya nga minsan nag aaway ang mga mag kakapatid dahil sa ninunong kayamanan…pero ang tinutumbok natin dito ang kayamanan nila ay hindi galing sa pangungurakot! ang kalaban ni Noynoy ay kumukuha ng butas para sirain ang kanyang pangalang namumulak-lak at bangung-bango! bakit hindi nating magawa na aminin sa ating sarili na itong si Noynoy ay iba ang dating sa nakakaraming Pilipino! Mangampanya na lang ang mga kalaban nya ng malinis na pamamaraan! Please, sawang sawa na kami sa ganitong pakikibag debate! karamihan sa matatalino sarili lang nila ang iginigiit, ayaw nilang makinig kung ano ang sinasabi ng kabila! bakit kamo?? dahil mas matalino sila, at ako ay mangmang! oo, oo matatalino ang mga naka-upo sa senado, pero nasaan ang katalinuhan nila? di ba pag dating na pera na ang pinag-usapan nabobobo sila? silaw na silaw sila pera! kakahiya! sayang mga utak nila! sorry Reyna ang haba ng comment ko yata, hindi ko mapigil ang sarili ko!
annie,
easy… easy… simple lang ang sagot ko. bakit hindi pwede ilabas kamo ang plataporma? dahil wala pa ang kampanya? eh bakit naglipana na ang political ads? at hindi lang si noynoy ang tinutumbok ko lahat ng kandidato. so huwag mo sana isipin na si noynoy lang ang pinupuntirya ko. ang totoo niyan may kadiskurso din ako sa mga villar at escudero supporters tungkol dito. hinihingi ko rin ang platapoorma ng kandidato nila.
tsaka bakit pumasok bigla ang isyu tungkol sa kayamanan ni hindi ko nga pinakikialaman ang isyu na yan tungkol kay noynoy.
yun lang. patas ako annie lahat ng kandidato kinikilatis ko. eh ano pa ba ang kikilatisin eh di plataporma.
kung ayaw nila ilabas ngayon ang plataporma tanggalin din nila mga ads nila as in silang lahat na kandidato. o patas naman di ba?
hirap naman kasi sa palusot na kesyo hindi pa kampanya para namang nakakaloko.
annie,
jan pa lang sa palusot na yan katrapohan na nga eh kung tutuusin. at hindi lang si noynoy. lahat silang gumagawa nito.
o.k., o.k, kung gusto nyong ipatanggal lahat ng AD, bakit hindi kayo mag reklamo dun sa mga T.V stations na nag ra-run ng mga AD na yan! iyun lang pala ang problema! hay buhay talaga! actually hindi ko nakikita ang mga AD nayan hehehe naandito ako sa malayong lugar….lucky me, di ba? hindi ako naaaburido sa kapapanood ng AD ng mga politiko! well good luck to you all! baka mapaki-usapan si Reyna na lumihis ang kanyang desisyon at ikampanya rin nya ang inyong mga manok! but be sure na-iilalabas nyo rin kung sino at ang inyong malinaw na plataproma? andito lang kaming bumabasa para pag aralan kung sino ang dapat piliin! O.K fair enough?
annie,
yes that’s fair. i make that commitment to you. as soon as i find my candidate i’ll inform you and everyone here. about sa pagrereklamo sa mga tv station. that’s actually ongoing kaya lang gahaman din mga istasyon na ito eh kaso nga it’s just me as far as i know. been bugging them by mail etc but to no avail. comelec naman wala magawa. and since di naman ata matatanggal ang mga ads na yan demand na lang tayo plataporma. or as i suggested also in my comment in an older post here pwede naman ibahin nila style ng ads nila. instead of showbiz approach pwede naman news feature approach. ubusin nila yung one minute or 30 seconder sa pagtukoy ng isang problema ng bayan na gusto nila tutukan at magbigay ng kahit konting detalyeng malaman kung paano nila ito aayusin. o di ba fair compromise din yun.
o.k gandahan ang presentation kay Reyna, kumpletuhin mo with matching pictures…para naman makita rin namin kung gaano ka-appeal ang iyung kandidato….oooopppsss hindi pala, para kung kamayan kami nyang kandidato mo ay ma-rerecognized din namin sya….as in..huh, sya ba si Perlas? oy hindi pala si Perlas ang kandidato mo! o.k iiin-troduce mo pa pala sya kay Reyna! O.k aabangan ko sya….
annie,
ikaw naman humirit ka pa. hindi ko pa nababasa gaano plataporma ni perlas. tsaka paano ako magkukumpara kung siya pa nga lang ang meron? kaya nga dapat pati yung ibang mga kandidato maglabas na rin. that way i’ll be able to compare.
Sino si Perlas? Siya ba yung nawawalang kapatid ni Guinto?
i may not be for Noynoy as well, but silver is right, napaka old school ng way ng pang-aattack nila, parang hindi mga professional at walang pinag-aralan.
Kung tatakbo kang presidente, bakit kailangan dungisan pa ang kalaban (though it’s a tactic). pero kung matinong tao ang boboto, bakit nya iboboto ang isang taong walang ibang alam kung hindi tumingin sa uling sa mukha ng kalaban eh hindi pa nga nila sinisiguradong malinis sila.
They should just focus sa mga plataporma nila kesa manila. wala silang pinagkaiba sa mga talakera sa palengke. na ang ninakaw na kamatis eh nagiging isang kilong mansanas!
delta,
all the more we — as in tayo lahat kahit magkakaiba pa ang mga kursunada nating kandidato — should band together and call for platforms. para dun na tayo lahat magfocus. elevate the debate.
pabor na pabor ako sa panawagang ito ni silver.
“why not present a better platform rather than launching nasty attacks against the other party.”
swak na swak.
Delta and Botomoto:
Kaya nga nakakaasar ang mga yan. Kaya di umaasenso ang Pilipinas kasi katangahan ang ginagawa. Instead na pasulong ang bansa natin, paurong tuloy ang galaw!
Teka, magrorollcall nga muna ng mga ibabalik sa classroom! Hahhaha. Leche talaga. Bwiset na bwiset ako pag nakakakita ako ng mga tanga sa tabi. Grr. Tapos lakas pa ng apog maglaunch ng mga ganitong kalokohan para malason ang kamalayan ng mga tao – yah know – the poison of black propaganda and misinformation.
silver,
“Kaya nga nakakaasar ang mga yan. Kaya di umaasenso ang Pilipinas kasi katangahan ang ginagawa. Instead na pasulong ang bansa natin, paurong tuloy ang galaw!”
ikaw na nagsabi medyo may problema nga siguro kung di hihingi at titingin sa plataporma.
kung may isyu naman totoo man o hindi kailangan lang sagutin. pagumiiwas o ibinabaon sa ibang bagay may problema din yun. sa totoo lang naman kasi wala naman talagang malinis na politiko as in 100% malinis. walang incorruptible na politician. some mas reluctant lang siguro… at first.
ang pang differentiate lang talaga is the platform because that is proof not only of their intention to serve but also how they plan to serve.
eto personal na opinion.
ang napansin ko these days, hindi na uubra ang old school dirty campaign political tactics na ginagawa ki noynoy dahil panahon pa to ni mahoma at yan na nga ang kinabwisitan noon.
ang mga bagong mulat na kabataan ngayon (eherrrrrrrrmmmmm) do not subscribe to this dirty tactics no more and the more na binabato nang tae si noynoy, the more people will support noynoy. yong mga voters lang naman na medyo tanders na ang naniniwalang this strategy still works and its not.
truth is noynoy is coming across more sa population instead sa mga rivals nya
oops instead na yong mga rivals nya
raul…….. dick……
nasan na kayo mga anak ko….
kayo nalang ang pagasa ng pilipinas huhuhu hihihi
padre damaso, tulungan nyo kong
hanapin ang mga anak koh….
raul….. dick…..
hihihihih huhuhuhuh
lumabas kayo, kayo nalang ang pagasa
ng pilipinas waaaaaa
padre damaso: uy sisalee ikaw pala.
sisalee:pader,nawawala po mga anak ko
padre damaso: si dick ba? natabunan ng mga relief sa dswd
sisalee: e siraul-ho nakita nyo?
padre damaso: (naiiling)…
hehehehe nasisiraan ako nang bait seyo lee leche ka haha
langya naman kc oo, nasan na kasi yung mga manok ko,
mukang sa andok ang bagsak!
one thing i predict, sureball pa rin na senator ang manok mo hehehe
Ampucha, tumitira na naman ng Gordon’s Gin si parekoy sa tabi! Hhahaha.
Kampai!
Erap pa rin! Disaster and tragedy are the only proven unifying force that works on the Filipino nation – Erap is the answer. Pag nanalo si Erap, magkakaisa na naman ang mga Pinoy, sa Edsa 4, HAHAHAHA! (joke!)
Seriously Reynz, I am not for Noynoy either. I think he does not have “it” to be commander in chief. Based on the videos of him that I have seen from in the past, he is a little shy and laid back. These are just my impression.
If MAr didn’t back out of his original plan, I would have jumped into the debate on his defense – sorry na lang sa manok mo, hehehe.
BUt I will give it to your candidate – Noynoy has no corruption issues which I think is what our country needs now. He has that moral ascendancy. He has the credibility to lead the nation in the fight against corruption as, unlike the other candidates (Teodoro, Villar, Erap, Chiz) Noynoy and his family have not been involved in one. In this particular area, Noynoy has my respect and confidence.
Perhaps, he will learn to have a more assertive personality during the campaign, kahit kalahati lang ng spunk ni Kris, hehehe. He needs to be known as Noynoy, not Ninoy and Cory’s only son – or worse, Kris’ brother. My disappointment really with Noynoy is, he has been in the national politics since the late 80′s and we don’t really know who he is.
Philippines is a tough nation, Ateng davah? It has a very unsecured, unrespected boundaries and if NOynoy wants to be president, he will be dealing with the pirates, the rebels, the terrorists, the illegal immigrants, the illegal recruiters, the druglords, the oil cartels, the leaders of the other countries. He needs to rise above many issues and develop that strong presence that says, “I am the president here and I’m in charge!”