Who’s to blame by all these black propaganda?
It’s truly election time in the Philippines. This is where the lowest form of the lowest form of any kind comes out. Forget about balimbings switching allegiances in seconds. Filipinos in terms of politics could be very nasty, to say the least, brutally low.
I knew from the beginning that Hacienda Luisita will be Noynoy’s biggest problem. In fact, I actually saw this coming.
I just received this from another blogfriend and I suspect that this will become viral and will be made viral by those anti-Aquino given the popularity of Noynoy’s infomercial or campaign ad that was just released.
From being compared to a Nazi propaganda to this one.
I personally find this image disturbing given the write-up of the Yellow Jesus. Disturbing in the sense that these people behind these image seemed to be pitting Filipinos against Filipinos in a disturbingly ghastly scenario.
I come to ask myself, how come “THEY” were not as disturbed as all the journalists that disappeared and continue to be gunned down? Can we have ribbons for that please?
How come “THEY” were not as disturbed by all the killings during the Marcos regime? Can we have ribbons for this one too?
The other day, another one was beheaded in Mindanao. Ribbons?
This is how far the election campaign goes in my country. Create hate and use it. Before long, they start shooting each other. Polarity truly characterizes our election. Some people out there prefers it that way.
Plaza Miranda coming???
And if that happens again, who’s to blame?!
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i noticed the barrage of Villar supporters attacking Noynoy these days too. was this coincidental? i wonder.
If Villar supporters are doing this, then I wonder what’s with them?
Villar has some very strong qualifications and credentials to boot. A self-made millionaire and those are good enough to pit against Noynoy Aquino. Why use these kinds of dirty tactics you know?
I long for a decent and civilized election campaign less the polarity that has eternally characterized our political landscape.
Some in the media should contribute to making this not only a clean election but a clean campaign. Why they seem to be at the forefront of this nasty election campaign is beyond me.
This only creates divisiveness amongst all of us and we don’t need that.
I truly believe that the rest of the candidates like Gibo, Chiz, Loren and Manny have some very strong credentials that they their supporters don’t need to use these kinds of dirty campaigning.
When are we all going to change? Change is not delivered by THE leader only. We are all in this.
Since when has been asking for the truth become a dirty tactic?
Suppressing the truth – IS a dirty tactic.
That’s true. We need a C5 ribbon too. Maybe you could start working on that one hehehe!
Am sure there’s one in the making.
And there’s a better one from Rom
Just the same, even if C-5 were true, it still does not diminish the message of the fact of Hacienda Luisita – or Jesus in Yellow.
And its up to the Filipino people whose message is strong enough to sway them to whoever they choose.
oh… so you bongV is a Vilar advocate? no wonder…
I am sure by now, you ought to realize who I work for is not anyone’s effin business. I don’t ask who any of you work for – you don’t ask me who I work for. But if you are insinuating that I am on a candidate’s payroll – the answer is a categorical no. I work for my children – period.
moreover, i notice a preponderance of strawman replies. very amusing
I wonder how you came about the conclusion that any one who does not agree that Noynoy is the best candidate is automatically for Villar. That’s a nonsequitur conclusion.
bongv, i was just wondering earlier. pero nangungulit ka na lang. tapos na to eh. you go for Perlas na di ba?
“Change is not delivered by THE leader only. We are all in this.”
i so agree with this. all of us can contribute to change. one way we can do this is by changing the way we assess the candidates. huwag padala agad sa mga dramatic tv ads. if the candidates claim they will bring about change huwag kaagad maniwala or mahulog. magtanong “paano mo nga ba ipatutupad ang pagbabago?” di po ba yun ang tamang paraan.
indeed, we ordinary filipinos can contribute to change. let’s start by changing how we vote. issue based not personality based.
and for the benefit of those who have just logged in. it’s an illogical argument to say that those calling for noynoy’s platforms are automatically anti-noynoy or pro-villar. it’s non-sequitur.
Actually, it is more disturbing given that the icons of anti-dictatorship, have themselves engaged in activities reminiscent of the MArcos dictatorship. In doing so, they have lowered themselves to the level of their professed “enemy” while trying to appear righteous. Quite hypocritical I’d say.
Sorry BongV, but that’s only according to anti-Aquinos and you.
Not a biggie. You asked a question, you got the answer.
whether you agree with it or not – does not bug me at all.
not a biggie – the Aquinos don’t have a monopoly of patriotism and the facts
Yeap. but you won’t find a saint either in Philippine politics. so why use divisiveness, after all, we all still have to sleep with the enemies, right?
what’s the point in having elections if you don’t differentiate the positions (or the lack thereof) taken on the burning issues of the day?
i agree with you. even in business differentiation is they key. but must you differentiate to divide? it’s a very thin line to find that unifying factor after all, beyond this election are still those who do not share the same belief with your candidate. would you annihilate them just because?
what’s the point of discussing politics here bong when you pretend to question, oh i’m sorry, you ask the truth about hacienda luisita, when you do not disclose who you work for?
I am sure by now, you ought to realize who I work for is not anyone’s effin business. I don’t ask who any of you work for – you don’t ask me who I work for. But if you are insinuating that I am on a candidate’s payroll – the answer is a categorical no. I work for my children – period.
reinz:
must differentiate to divide? please disambiguate por favor
annihilate? huh? i am not sure am on the same page as you are.
again, tspo na rin itong effin business business na to kanina pa.
I am not surprised. I saw this one coming, sa bolang kristal ni madame auring.
Now this is a Nazi Propaganda — Pero hindi daw kasi truth lang.
YES! they can twist the argument in their favor. classic! — I also saw this one coming. Nobrainer.
bluepanjeet:
if you wanna do a Nazi vs Nazi strawman reply – instead of focusing on the message – Noynoy does not stand for change but for retaining the oligarch-dominated status quo –
am sure El Capitana wisdom see’s the downhill slippery slope of strawman replies
ok, where do you stand on Gloria? where do you stand on Erap? magkalabasan na ang hypocrite dito.
where do I stand on Erap – never liked the guy nor voted for him.
where do I stand on Arroyo- never liked her nor voted for her either.
Went out on a limb for Raul Roco – decent, honest, principled, a man with a vision – http://www.pcij.org/blog/?p=296
not bad.
BongV, so there should be no rift between our stance (you and me or perhaps some of my co-B7 writers here). I voted Roco also, the first time I voted for a President since I became a registered voter. I even wrote a post about him here on barrio.
So don’t you think Roco and Noynoy have the same pricnciple that you are talking about? Roco was the one who helped Ninoy draft the famous “study now pay later bill” Roco and ninoy are on the same fence. Noynoy on the other hand is just continuing Ninoy’s legacy albeit he still lacks concrete achievements. But nevertheless they have the same principle. That’s why an arroyo appointee on Bicol resigned to go volunteer for Noy because he was a former party mate of Roco in bicol who ran and won the previous election, and believed that the same principle of Roco is also running on the veins of Noynoy.
so why argue with noynoy? why can;t we just agree that we all want change, the change that both Roco and Ninoy fought for and that whoever we see as the one who has the same principle as them is our right to promote as dictated by our plitical rights to preference. why all this argument when we can just all hope for the best in our country and promote the candidate who we believve has principles, decency and honesty?
we can opt to argue until our brains run dry or we can just promote on our own blogs the candidate that we prefer. thats the only mature option that I can think of.
Noynoy ain’t a Raul Roco. Nor is Roco a stooge of the oligarchs.
So clearly, the problem is with you, Not on Noynoy.
I rest my case.
On the contrary, the problem is Noynoy’s supporters who try to project Noynoy as a Raul Roco when he is not.
For one, Raul Roco wasn’t just a legislator, he was also an executive – a Cabinet secretary, the man who reshaped DepEd from one of the the most corrupt government agencies into a model for best practices. Noynoy can’t claim the same.
Two, Raul Roco campaigned under an alternative party – not under a trapo party like LP.
So, I don’t see how the factual difference between Noynoy and Aquino becomes “the problem is you”. Sounds off-tangent to me.
you’ve already driven your point BongV – noynoy is not it. we heard it loud and clear.
even benigno has driven his. loud and clear. all noynoy supporters are stupid.
what more?
we’re still for noynoy.
he offers the hope for a change.
alam ko na ang tanong mo.
“what change”
Have you even read my comment above? The point of comparison is not on the achievements but on the Principle of Roco and Noynoy. Comparing both men and projecting Noynoy as Roco are two different things. You should know, you are an intellectual right? You are over analyzing. Seriously.
I would like to think that there is something in you that we just don’t see on the surface. That’s why I made an effort to at least bridge the gap. But you are a hopeless case LOL
Kaya nga I rest my case na kasi the problem is you dahil kahit point of unity or common ground man lang, kahit hypothetical, eh ayaw mo talaga magbigay.
and then you are throwing the blame on the Noynoy supporters obviously for your lack of diplomatic skills, even in this petty and shallow debate you are engaging yourself into.
Tell me honestly pare, when was the last time you actually applied the virtue of “humility?”
The problem is clearly you.
Me, too.
And if the candidates start off by presenting a comprehensive platform with substance (not platitudes) – instead of oblivious TV ads pandering to the lowest and basest reptilian instincts – then we can not only have a decent, and civilized election – BUT an INTELLIGENT ONE, too.
O di ba? High five?:)
Well again, BongV, that’s just for anti-Aquino’s. I believe bluepanjeet has explained it very well.
You’d be surprised by what I believe (which i have already shared in several posts), I actually believe that Gibo, Loren, Chiz and even Villar has some very strong credentials to boot. Agree? Gibo alone is unbelievable. If Noynoy is not in the running and if he’s not aligned with Gloria, I’d ran to him and be his campaign manager. And so is Villar. It think his story is one for the books, delete the rest of the accusations.
My point? Why go low? Sometimes I believe that Villar’s supporters (if this truly came from them) are actually rooting for Noynoy because this will certainly backfire on his campaign.
I hope youre not underestimating Pinoy’s intelligence.
Reinz:
Am quite aware that the pro-Aquinos talk about “change”.
With the absence of a platform, the pro-Aquinos have really no idea about the specifics of the “change” they are talking about –
what exactly is change in the context of the oligarch-oriented anti-investor provisions of the 1987 constitution?
what exactly is change in the context of the oligarch-driven watered down CARP? more SDOs instead of land? ano ba talaga?
if all that can be mustered to these questions are faces with smiles, with a look in the eye, and some sappy cheesy music – c’mon guys – are you underestimating the intelligence of the Filipino
i’d be very happy to hear noynoy respond to those questions too bongV. let me know what he says given that these oligarchs accusations are just that – by anti aquinos.
a watered down CARP is highly expected. Congress itself is occupied by them oligarchs, the Aquinos included.
so who do we go for this coming election?
Villar, Teodoro, Erap, Noli, Chiz? sino ba ang pwede talaga?
let us not isolate Noynoy, lahat naman me problema. Kaya hanggang ngayon wala akong mapili. so who doesn’t underestimate the Filipino people?
Buraot:
Ba’t si Noynoy, Villar, at Escudero lang ba ang mga kandidato?
kaya nga fill=in the blanks na lang. gusto mo isama mo pa si ebdane. heheheh.
my point is, who do you root for? para magkalinawan. kase halo halo na ang diskusyunan dito.
who do i root for? whoever best fits the mold four KPIs -integrity, track record, proven ability, and platform (relevant and with substance, wag yung platitudes).
whoever fits? right…
you, benigno and botomoto have just narrowed down to noynoy attackers and that’s just basically it without even one candidate in mind plaster here in the barrio para SYA naman pagusapan naten. korak?
kaya nababansagan kayong mga paid hackers and sometimes i feel like beginning to believe it.
oo na nga bongv, nasabi mo na yan ng ilang beses… whoever best fits the mold four KPIs -integrity, track record, proven ability, and platform (relevant and with substance, wag yung platitudes).
pwede mo na yan ipa patent.
paulit ulit lang. nasagot mo na rin yan kanina. gusto mo lang ata kada thread ikaw ang final say eh.
HIGH FIVE Bong. again I ask, sino ang alternative candidate mo? para naman malinawan ako kung sino na nga ba ang iboboto ko.
Buraot:
As far as am concerned, it really depends on your criteria for choosing a candidate. Some use gut.. some use a more rigorous process like Kepner-Tregoe methodologies.
alam mo Reynz, nag uusap lang kami nitong esposo ko tungkol dyan sa eleksyon, sabi nya “natatakot ako para kay Noynoy, dahil sa maduming pulitika, sana naman hindi sya matulad sa kanyang ama”. Oo nga naman, itong mga natatakot na si Noynoy ay maupo, sana naman hindi humantong sa ganitong mga pangyayari….gusto lang ng buong Pilipinas ang pagbabago, na sanay maging maunlad din tayo at mag karoon din ng ginhawa ang ating mga buhay! bakit mahirap intindihin ang mga bagay na ito? Oo na, kanya kanyang propaganda! pero sana naman, katulad nga ng sinabi mo, MAGING MALINIS SANA ANG DARATING NA ELEKSYON! ayokong isipin na mag karoon ulit ng isa pang Plaza Miranda…Wag na po tayong mag hasik ng galit sa ating kapwa Pilipino, iisang dugo ang nananalantay sa ating mga ugat at ang idinadalangin ko sa poong maykapal na sanay mag karoon tayo ng Pinuno na wagas ang kaluluwa na mag lingkod sa bayang PILIPINO, at taos puso at walang halong pangungurakot! iyun lang po!
Ang kinakatakot ko, hindi pa campaign season, masyado na syang marumi and at the forefront eh tong mga tiga-media who I was expecting would be on a lookout for dirty tactics.
Ang ang kinikilabutan ako eh kung mangyari uli ang Plaza Miranda with these kinds of campaigning that truly seem to want to ignite some hatred sa kampo ni Noynoy.
ano ba ang marumi sa tanong na – ano ba ang ginawa mo hinggil sa hacienda luisita? if he does not come clean on hacienda luisita, he better start learning the lessons of chappaquidick.
nothing really Bong. ba’t paulit ulit?
and it’s the same also as Villar in terms of the C5 correct? ang point mo is that di pede si Noynoy dahil they have shades of dictatorhips. eh si Villar? di rin pede sya dahil he’s got shades of dictatorship too right?
paulit ulit na lang to.
Well if you really have to use that line – C5 and hacienda luisita cancel each other out. Then you can raise the ante and look at another KPI – proven executive ability.
in all fairness, Noynoy should answer that. but also in the name of fairness, who do you work for Bong?
who do I work for? oh you mean – it’s the if you are not for noynoy then you must be for here. alam mo, that’s one of the most ridiculous lines i have heard on the net.
eh kung sasabihin kung i am working to find out who among these candidates has the best platform, achievements, and track record – i am working for myself so that my children can have a better future (hopefully no more oligarch-dominated retrogressive Philippines).
I don’t work for any kandidato if that’s what your driving at – don’t need their money, have enough in my wallet – though an Erap presidency will be good since my USD will be able to buy more pesos when capital flight sets in with an Erap presidency
eh ginugulo mo lang bok eh.
we all are here for something. there is no such thing as altruism. we all do what our do because we want something in return.
i am not for noynoy, as i have said several times. now, if you say you are looking for an alternative candidate eh di iyun! andami mo pang sinasabi.
pareho lang tayong aktibista and we both know that we work to espouse something, whatever is it that you espouse for. and this election is no different. pare-pareho lang yang mga kandidatong yan. now kung matindi ang galit mo kay NOynoy, it’s up to you.
as for me, they are al the same.
the point of the argument here is not the platform of Noynoy nor anyone or the absence thereof.
the point of the article is why the hell some people can be so extreme as to describe political ads as Nazi-like whereas in fact most mass actions and propagandas have the same element as can be seen with the Russians, the comunists, Maoists and pretty much everywhere.
Where exactly?
Depends on what your “something” is. The return I am expecting is a greener, peaceful, prosperous Philippines with a wider middle class – and I don’t think an oligarch bankrolled by vested interests is about to achieve that for the Philippines.
I’ll have to disagree. If you are referring to the trapo front runners, yes they are all the same. But if you cast a wider net, they are not the same. and we agree to disagree on this point. Galit has nothing to do with coming to a conclusion based on a review of four KPIs -integrity, track record, proven ability, and platform.
that actually hits the point – just because the Russians, the comunists, Maoists and pretty much everywhere use it – does not make it any less Nazi-like. The repetitive ads of evoking change when in fact the Noynoy campaign is really about protecting the status quo – an oligarch-dominated economy is reminiscent of Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda saying that
moot and academic na tong comment na to.
pero yes, i think nagulo lang. and yes in a true sense of the word, there is no such thing as altruism. that is just being frank. you wanted something in return just as i do. i wanted a better country. that is “something” i want in return.
yes, i am referring to the frontrunners, they are all the same.
Nazi and Hitler are hate words. why use them? we at the progressive blocs use these to persuase the public as well, do we call ourselves Nazi-like? if you call yourself one, it’s your call not mine.
and you don’t have to study Nazism to believe that “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.”
tinuturo na ito ng mga kalahi ni padre damaso noon pa.
nope they are not hate words. who’s we? i prefer to speak for myself. does the progressive bloc call itself nazi-like? well, it is not a homogenous bloc – and some would compare campanyang ahos as a Nazi-style holocaust – as in, people really died.
It was Jospeh Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda Minister who articulated such, and used it to the hilt – and therefore the association has stuck.
alam mo bongv, kanina nawala na init ng ulo ko eh. kasi nakikita ko yung point of argument mo, na tama naman in a way.
kaso tapos na tong mga issues dito eh. ok for Perlas ka. and yes, Noynoy si Reynz. kami undecided pa. kaya lang sa halip na naswa-sway mo kami to check out your suggestions, kinukulit mo na lang kami.
puro nitpicking ang ginagawa mo eh. at nagsasawa na ako sa mga Nazi readings mo. kung may masters ka sa Nazism kami wala, dahil wala kaming interes dyan sa paborito mo.
and what is that link that you referred me earlier, that you are Nathan Quimpo, is that you.
at oo na sinabi na ni Joseph Goebbels yun. naniniwala na kami.
at sige, trapo na si Noynoy pati ang LP at lahat ng hindi papasa sapersonal qualifications mo.
basata lang tigilan mo na ang mga sumusunod:
1. na si Noynoy at LP ay Trapo
2. na Whatever according to Joseph Goebbels
3. na si Nick Perlas
4. na mmay 4 KPIs ka -integrity, track record, proven ability, and platform
sa halip na maintindihan namin yung isinu-sugest mo, nakukulitan lang kami. so ok panalo ka na? ngayon masaya ka na? me nakuha ka bang boto?
wala. may naasar ka lang. so sige panalo ka na.
Naku wag naman sanang mangyari yun….iyun nga eh, hindi pa naman talaga oras ng pangangampanya, siguro ang commercial ni Noynyoy ay pahiwatig lang na MADAMING GUSTONG UMALALAY SA KANYA! hindi sya nag iisa….maagang ipinalabas ang Ad para lumabas ang mga taong gusto pang mag bigay ng boluntaryong tulong para sa darating na eleksyon, hindi talaga ito pangangampanya…meron pang susunod na mas interesting ang ipapalabas nila….ang kaso nga dahil sa masyadong naging popular si Noynoy sa Ad na ito, natakot na lalo ang kanyang mga kalaban sa politika, sa palagay nila wala na talaga silang panalo kay Noynoy, kaya binabatikos na nila ito ng husto o sinisiraan at hinahalungkat ang mga bagay na ikasisira ng kanyang pangalan.
Is there a reason NOT to undersestimate Pinoy intelligence?
So far as I have seen, the wrong arguments usually win in Pinoy society. Noynoy’s campaign is evidence of that — all gloss and no substance. Yet he is the most popular candidate in the land, a success at capturing the hearts of the vacuous millions on the basis of nothing more than a pedigree platform.
We Pinoys think better than the image that you see above.
That reasoning of course if just you and the rest of anti-Aquino. I happen to agree with the very well written piece of bluepanjeet, benigno. Sorry.
Reinz:
agreeing on a post is not a biggie.
you can agree for, example that when a man jumps off a 100-foot cliff he can fly without any device.
your agreeing to such a proposition will still have no bearing on the fact that the man after jumping off the cliff, will accelerate at 9.8 meters per second squared – and will hit the ground with a splat.
Bong,
Don’t reduce this conversation to something else.
Marunong mag-isip and I just don’t agree just for the sake of agreeing. Wag mo akong paiyakin. Hindi ako iiyak seyo. Hahaha!
Oopps! I mean – marunong naman akong mag-isip.
ibig sabihin Reynz, umagree ka na! kahit masama ang loob mo! hahahah meron talagang mga taong ipinipilit ang gusto nila na maging gusto mo rin….tsk tsk tsk nasaan na ang kalayaan natin para mag isip at pumili ng gusto natin?
annie:
no one’s forcing anyone.
reinz is quite capable of speaking for himself. he will make his own assessment on the merits of the case and come to his own conclusions.
of course, he has other memes within him that are competing for attention – rationality versus angst
@bong,
on your response to annie,
i don’t know if you meant candidates because so far, up to now, Noynoy tops my list – unless he bungles this one.
foremost in my choice with him is that it truly hope that he offers the best chance for me to be the person who will reverse the culture of corruption that’s characterizes the current administration – the unethical conduct of some in her administration and the self-serving motives of some in the legislature.
even if you think noynoy doesn’t have any platform, this is the entire platform of hope for me and i truly hope that he will make good his word to run after the marcos loot and include the arroyos.
@bong,
i so truly want to believe that “hope” – but without a platform, i can’t.
how exactly is he going to reverse the culture of corruption? is he going to create a new agency? use PCGG? is he going to push for new legislation or strongly enforce existing laws – so far he has been stating motherhood statements. Aba’y high school pa tayo motherhood statement na, magkaka-apo na lang tayo, motherhood statement pa rin, di ba nakakasawa, nakakatawa, at nakaka-awa?
bilang dating tibak, i have seen firsthand how the oligarch’s piggybacked Cory Aquino on the broad mass movement and caused retrogression by returning the Philippines to the oligarch-dominated pre-1970s scene. That Noynoy is backed by the Lopez oligarchies’ ABS-CBN and its monopolies is a dead giveaway – it is the same theme, it is the same mushy feel good brainwashing on the airwaves, but same o same o.
Thus, far, after reviewing the candidates track record (or lack thereof), credentials (or lack thereof), platform (or lack thereof) – I can’t for the life of me come to a conclusion that Noynoy is the best candidate.
Though, a candidate who has gotten my attention lately had the following solid achievements (not to mention published books) – A community activist, a book, articulate – I think that’s the real deal of “Change We Can Believe In”:
Reynz:
Considering that the facts and platforms are being demanded from ALL candidates,
Is asking for the facts anti-aquino?
Is asking for a platform anti-aquino?
Am I doing the reduction? It’s not like am doing a one-liner sweep under the rug statement – that’s because he is anti-aquino.
Magpakatotoo naman. High five?
why do I believe na parating na ang campaign season and they will surely have their own platform? Saan ka naman nakakita nang election na walang platform? anti-aquino lang naman are doing this mis-information campaign that noynoy has no platform.
really? mind showing noynoy’s platform?
yung tipo bang nakikita mo noong kampanya ni BHO – comprehensive and with substance. yung tipong maipagmamalaki mo sa mga propesor mo sa grad school, di ba?
last time i visited noynoy.ph (like a minute ago) – the six motherhood statements of a non-platform was gone. so if you have information about his detailed comprehensive platform will greatly appreciate your providing a link.
thus far, ang pinakasubstantiated na nabasa ko ay yung ke Nick Perlas sa http://www.nickperlas.com/?page_id=82.
Bong,
Let’s wait until he gets that out. From what I know hindi pa naman officially campaign season correct? I’d be very surprised na sobra nang pagkatanga ni Noynoy to run for office without a platform.
Reinz:
ang isyu kasi nito, panay na ang labasan ng ads para makumbinse ang mga taong pumili ng kandidato.
kaso, pag humingi ng plataporma upang ma-evaluate kung yung posisyon ng kandidato ay nag-riresonate sa personal values ng isang botante, sasabihing, di pa naman nagsisimula ang kampanya.
eh kung ganon – dapat, tigil muna ang mga TV ads – dahil di pa simula ng kampanya.
e kung hihirit sila ng TV ads, aba’y dapat palikuran nila ito ng plataporma ng hindi naman nagmumukhang tanga ang pilipino na nakukuha lang sa isang tingin, sa sayaw at tugtugin.
kung tutuusin, noong nagdidipensa ka ng MBA thesis mo, para makumbinsi mo ang panel, nilagay mo ang iyong policy directions, ang iyong projections, ang basis ng iyong forecast – i doubt na dinaan mo yun sa pasayaw-sayaw at patawata – i bet you sweat your ass out and emerged with flying colors.
ngayong ikaw na ang nakaupo sa panel, palalampasin mo ba ang evaluation process through pasayaw sayaw at pakanta kanta na lang – di ba kaya at yan ay isang insult to your intelligence.
di ba?
totoo, kung manga-ngampanya ka lang naman, bakit di mo ilabas ang baraha mo. pero wag na nating pag-awayan ang plataporma dahil hindi ako naniniwalang basta lang kakandidato yan, sinabi ko na to sa taas. meron yan. baka strategy nila. opposite ends tayo.
unfair naman atang itigil ang TV ads na to just because mas effective ang nagawa nung video na to kumpara sa TV ad ni Villar, ni Bayani, ni Gibo at nang kung ilan pang nakakatawang tingnan.
ang totoong issue dito eh napaka-epektibo nang infomercial or campaign ad na yon na nagpa-ignite nang dugo nang mga kalaban ni noynoy kaya expected ang negative reactions.
as i have said – darating ang opisyal na campaign season at naniniwala akong maila-latag nila ang mga plano nila.
i remember, yung ads ni Villar had been on air in TFC more than a month ago pa. me suvstance ba yun? wala din. bat di ipinatigil? bat walang nag question?
reynz,
that’s the thing. those who are calling for platform are not singling out noynoy’s ads. i for one want all political ads taken off the air if that’s all the politicians will offer.
dapat priority ang platform. if not at least isabay man lang sa ad.
btw i also answered your question on the other post as to how the ads can be improved or soomething like that.
pwede naman kasi mag-ad sila pero huwag naman yung trapo style na puro artista at sayaw sayaw eklat eklat. pwede naman parang one minute report wherein they will identify one particular issue and present their plan of action kung pano iaadress. di ba pwede naman yun? and wouldn’t that serve the voting public better than all this dramatic ads? di kaya’t the younger generations who will see such informative ads become conditioned to think na ganun pala ang tamang kampanya. the way these dramatic ads are being show right now for everyone to see including very young children parang wala eh. talagang we’re ensuring that generations after us trapo pa rin ang magiging sistema.
we want change? let’s start with changing how our candidates campaign and how we assess them.
benigno, bongv,
well there are a lot of reasons why some people underestimate our people’s intelligence. imagine we voted for Erap, landslide. imagine how people put up with Gloria and all the corrupt who kept on corrupting the system and the people.
but then again, what are those people who claim to be intelligent, what are they doing? how bout you guys, i believe you are above-standard, do you have anybody in mind, do you have something to offer?
and I ask that with no sarcasm, bros.
kasi debate tayo ng debate dito, ano ba ang napapala natin? maglinawan na tayo. kanino ba tayo? what is our purpose?
do we just drop on each other’s blogs just to create chaos and give each other high blood pressures? or are we engaged in a gentlemanly discourse?
are we in an argument that would lead us to the better truths? if not, ma-ayawan na lang tayo dahil nauubos lang ang oras natin pare-pareho.
I am sure you are familiar with evaluation and elimination. As you eliminate what you don’t stand for, you get to see the remaining candidates who resonate with what you stand for. and you vet even further. alangan namang sakay ka agad sa bandwagon, rational critical thinking bok.. saan na yung social investigation mo?
eh makulit ka naman talaga bok eh. sinabi nang wala pa akong manok eh. like i said, pare pareho lang yang mga yan. sino bang nasa bandwagon?
so you know what or who you stand for. nakailang sabi ka na. paulit ulit ka na lang. hindi na social investigation ang ginagawa mo at lalong hindi ka na rin nakaka-influence as far as your progressive stance is concerned, kasi napo-polarize mo na lang ang binababaan mong base.
ganyan ba ang alam mong tactic to organize and influence, ang mangulit?
Alam mo Reynz, para sa akin, merong platform yang sila Noynoy kaya lang syempre ayaw pa lang ilabas dahil maaga pa! at dahil baka kopyahin ng mga kalaban nya sa politika noh!
i believe meron sila sa pilipinas na window of campaign so not sure kung strategy nila to otherwise you run the risk of being disqualified. actually, muntik na ata si Gibo nung dineklarea na sya ang admin candidate eh
ewan ko na lang annie:
humahataw na sila ng infomercials, subalit ayaw maglabas ng plataporma dahil kopyahin? eh di ibig sabhin nun, bangkarote ang utak ng mga kandidatong nangopya.
pangalawa, di naman siguro tanga ang pinoy upang di malaman kung sino ang nangopya.
pangatlo, ika nga bawat kandidato ay merong USP – Unique Selling Proposition – e kung ala syang pinagkaiba sa ibang kandidato – isn’t it about time to re-evaluate one’s choice?
but that’s just me, and I know not all people think alike, some even don’t think – eh kung si Mang Abe at ang kanyang tsiwariwap ang masusunod – don’t think just follow your gut, eh di sa gutter na naman tayo nyan. nakakasawa na yung same o same o, maiba naman for a change, maybe if we try harder at using our kukote ika nga instead of being so into the drama in total drama island
so tell me BongV,
if Noynoy is not – then who is?
Reinz:
I am still doing homework. A friend of mine na dati ring tibak mentioned Perlas. His name did not ring a bell initially.
But I challenged his team to provide a comprehensive platform, to provide credentials, and track record.
I mentioned the guy to the FV folks like Abe and MCB – their comment was Perlas is not “winnable”. As far as I am concerned – kung “winnability” ang batayan, at hindi “proven ability”, “tested capability” – e di same o same o na naman, di ba? Eh kung ganun, di pa rin tayo natuto – at talagang magmumukha tayong tanga.
So, going back, ok sa akin yung anti-corruption. Ang tanong ko was how, exactly. Where Noynoy stops, Nick Perlas articulates:
eh kung ganitong klase ang diskusyon, i feel that Perlas respects the Pinoy enough to define what he stands for (and not try to please everyone – you know the proverb) and let the chips fall where they may lie.
when I don’t see a platform, ang feeling ko ay para bang ang tingin ng kandidato sa yo e, makukuha ka sa tingin at tawa.. napakababaw naman, totally undeserving of my vote.
so far si Nick Perlas lang talaga ang malinaw. ang tanong? iboboto ba natin sya?
nasaan ang mga progresibo pagdating sa eleksyon na ito?
ang Akbayan ay malinaw na nakalatag sa Liberal Party, ang Bayan group ay may sariling senate line-up, ang ibang nawatak na RJ ay hiwa-hiwalay din, ang iba ay andun kina Chiz, at ang iba ay malabo pa.
and malinaw din sa akin na kailangan sagutin ni Noynoy ang isyung ito.
ang hindi malinaw sa akin ay ang pagpipilit ninyo na ihambing ang mga ads na yan sa Nazism gayong lahat naman ng pagkilos ay maaari ding ihambing dito.
Buraot:
That’s up to your conscience – knowing siya ang pinakamalinaw – and yet… you will vote for the muddled?
nabanggit ko sa kabilang thread yung punto ni Joseph Goebbels na – “a lie repeated often becomes the truth”. Projecting yourself as an agent of change when you are actually protecting the oligarch dominated status quo isn’t exactly truthful. and playing an ad repetiively ad nauseam to project something which is not exactly true is taken straight from the Nazi propaganda playbook.
Kumbaga, lahat ng kandidato (except one who does not believe in infomercials plus the fact that he believes it is a violation of election campaign laws) ay sinusunod lang din ang linyang ito – including Noynoy.
bongV:
so far, quite obviously, si Nick ang may malinaw. i can either vote with my conscience or not, i’ll have to wait and see until who files for candidacy.
like i said, yang mga kandidato na nasa forefront, pare pareho lang yan.
here’s the problem, assuming nick perlas has the most credible platform, where are his support groups?
where are the progressive blocs? where are the fragmented left?
more importantly, nasaan na tayo?
buraot,
what matters to me is who is the candidate that fits the mold of my four KPIs – integrity, proven ability, vision/platform that resonates with my personal values. as to other people’s evaluation methods and motivations for selecting their candidates – that’s their business. .i don’t care about support groups, progressive blocs, or the fragmented left – bahala sila sa buhay nila, what they do ain’t my effin business.
bongv,
if that is your personal criteria, good. we all have our own. diskusyunan lang naman at kumbinsihan ng kandidato. i have my own reason, and i opt not to choose one yet.
my personal take is that i would have wanted to take the pragmatic approach with the realization that our ideal candidate cannot win in this traditional game. the system itself is embedded with traponess.
so kahit na sinong kandidato, walang mapapala and the only alternative choice for the country is to choose a lesser evil everytime. and the choice for the so-called progressives is to gain the maximum possible gains that can be produced every election period like to expand the mass base of support for people’s causes and the likes.
this country needs more than just election.
yes i know bongv, you said it too many times already. tha 4 KPI’s memorize na namin yan. pero naintindihan ba namin, kahit madaling maintindihan, ayaw na naming intindihin, you know why?
naging nuisance ka na eh.
Bong,
I do believe na me manok ka. And of course accepted ko na that for you Noynoy is not it because he’s for the oligarchs, he’s a future dictator, he’s got no platform and all other things not presidential.
I’m disappointed. How could you be hypercritical of Noynoy and yet “i’m still doing my homework”? The least that you could discuss is the best qualities of your top choices. It’s not fair to truly attack my choice taz wala ka palang kandidato, right?
I don’t want to attack you on a personal level pero doesn’t that sound similar to being a nuisance candidate? Point is, no matter what you will still not vote for Noynoy so as I said at the very least, why don’t we discuss the great points nang candidates mo and hopefully we could find the differentiation that you’re looking for.
Othewise, ba’t pa tayo nag-discuss nang differentiation when iisa lang pala ang dinidiscuss naten and that’s your being anti-noynoy, right? In differentiation there has to be at least 2 poles. Asan ung iyo?
am not even sure if it indeed is accurate to refer to the binary state of a (true or false) of a single attribute (honesty/integrity) as 2 poles.
in my case I have four attributes/KPIs – integrity, proven ability, vision/platform that resonates with my personal values. as to other people’s evaluation methods and motivations for selecting their candidates – that’s their business. A more thorough approach uses Kepner-Tregoe methodology
as of the moment, we have this venue to discussing the methodologies by which we came to our respective conclusions. different methodologies, different conclusions. please don’t confuse the exchange of ideas as an imposition – am not even going there
what i meant by 2 poles were 2 candidate (at least for comparison) since you were looking for differentiation for how can you make a distinction without a comparison, sounds easy enough right?
now here’s the interesting part of what you said:
quo vadis mon ami?! if that’s their business then why the heck have we racked up over 100 comments discussing why we chose noynoy?! sumesemplang ka brother!
anyway…integrity, proven ability, vision/platform
integrity – Aquino – checked.
proven ability – Aquino – checked.
vision/platform – Aquino – checked.
now, how come i am stupid again?
integrity – Aquino – oligarch stooge – hacienda luisita – unchecked.
proven ability – Aquino – – ZERO performance in congress and senate – unchecked.
vision/platform – Aquino – ZERO platform in website – unchecked. platitudes do not make a platform. imagine obama using a noynoy platform – obama will look hysterical
alin ba sa dalawang statement ang dapat paniwalaan?
Statement 1?
or Statement 2?
meron? wala? ginagawa pa? kung ginagawa pa, ibig sabihin, wala pa, di ba? kung wala pa, ba’t mo sasabihing checked?
pangalawa, kung may platform man – ang tanong, may substance pa? eh kung motherhood statements lang – isipin mo na lang, how would Obama look if he had such a platform?
hi BongV, akoy masugid na taga basa lang dito sa ating barrio, kung ikaw ay may pag aalinlangan kay Noynoy para maging presidente ng Pilipinas…..ang tanong ko lang sino naman ang napipisil mong para sa iyo ay karapat dapat? at bakit?
annie: in my case I have four attributes/KPIs – integrity, proven ability, vision/platform that resonates with my personal values. as to other people’s evaluation methods and motivations for selecting their candidates – that’s their business. A more thorough approach uses Kepner-Tregoe methodology
me mga methodology pa pala kayo sa kaVilang Varrio huh! haha!
Platform
By Conrado de Quiros
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 21:49:00 11/10/2009
EVERY ELECTION, it’s customary, obligatory even, for presidential candidates to accuse one another of not having platforms. The dejados in particular, to suggest the frontrunners lack depth.
It’s one of those games we, or our candidates, like to play, and with no small amount of cynicism. Everybody knows no Philippine election has yet been won on the strength of a platform. And everybody knows that after the elections no one seriously pins down the candidates to what they promised, least of all in their platforms. It’s a ritual we practice every election, not unlike self-flagellation during Lent, demanding the utmost excellence from our candidates and settling for their being crooks afterward.
I do believe in platforms, even if I know they matter little in determining the outcome of our elections. They can matter later on, if the person we bring to power is fairly trustworthy and will take his own to heart. I do not believe in elaborate platforms, the kind candidates hire people with a lot of letters after their names to suggest they are men, or women, of gravitas. Those blueprints normally get thrown in the wastebasket before the counting of votes begin, or maybe even long before. As I see it, platforms, like constitutions, ought to be simple. They ought to set out in broad strokes one’s vision and direction.
I have my own, feel free to adopt it. It has only three elements:
The first is to teach history. I cannot sufficiently belabor its importance. The point is national pride. It’s something other Asian countries have and we don’t. That alone guarantees us as the basket case of Asia. You don’t have national pride or a sense of country, you’ll get nowhere.
How to instill that pride? I know of no better way than by knowing history. By history, I do not just mean names and dates, though I don’t mind even that so long as history is taught. I know that from personal experience. The sensation of reading Rizal’s novels, “Noli” and “Fili,” for the first time—without them being assignments—is quite literally an eye-opener. It’s like having been blind your whole life and suddenly been given sight. I had the same sensation reading about Bonifacio and the Katipunan, Mabini and the American Occupation, the Commonwealth and the War.
We keep saying we are a forgetful people. Why shouldn’t we be forgetful if we are not given a past to remember? Indeed, if our own rulers make it a point to destroy that past lest it catches up with them? Which of course is the case today: The very beneficiary of Edsa II wants us to forget the thing that brought her to power. This regime hasn’t just erased our past, it has erased our instinct to remember.
The second is to feed the hungry. That was not, that is not, and that won’t be, assured by a policy of importing rice. That has been, that can be, and that will be assured by having self-sufficiency in rice. Which can be done by treating our farmers like human beings.
The developed countries will not compromise food notwithstanding their call for free markets and open economies. The US heavily subsidizes its agriculture. The European Union heavily subsidizes its agriculture. Japan heavily subsidizes its agriculture.
We do not. We treat our farmers like chattel slaves. Home of IRRI and home to vast cultivable lands, we have become the biggest importer of rice in Asia, possibly of the world. Under the present regime in particular, we have embarked on the foolhardy policy of trusting in the kindness of strangers. Suffice it to say that history in the form of the current rice crisis, which threatens to be long and bitter, has proven it wrong.
We want to assure the present, let’s reverse that policy. Whatever massive subsidy we give to rice production will always be massively cheaper than the subsidy we give to official corruption. Hell, we want to assure the present, let’s get rid of this regime.
The third is to educate the populace. By education, I don’t just mean the three “R’s” (reading, ’riting and ’rithmetic), though that is quite a substantial part of it. Every time school opens, you’re assailed by the staggering sight of Korea et al. having a 1-1 ratio between computer and student and our classrooms having to make do with two or even three shifts, if they are not improvised under a guava tree. How on earth are we going to compete with other countries if we have only a mass of tired, poor, hungry—and ignorant—masses yearning to get by? Take it from Reggie Miller of the NBA, you don’t go to school, you won’t have a shot. He actually says “college,” but never mind college just mind elementary and high school. We don’t have that, we’ll always be prey to false economic prophets, religious crackpots, and political charlatans.
But more than the three “Rs,” I also mean the three “ty’s”—honesty, integrity, probity. Education shouldn’t just impart skills, it should impart values. And the best way to teach that is by example. Example is the best teacher of all. You have a teacher who is always drunk, who harasses students, and who skips classes, no amount of lecturing by him on civics and ethics is going to stick. You have a government that lies, cheats and steals, no amount of talk by it about unity and solidarity is going to stick. When parents are a bad influence on their kids, other countries cut them off from their children, remanding the kids to the custody of child welfare. I don’t see why, when government is a bad influence on its citizens, we do not boot it out of sight and remand the citizens to the custody of public welfare.
This country isn’t hopeless. All it takes is a little vision and a lot of will. Let’s have history, food, and education and we’ll have a past, a present, and a future.
That is a platform.
exactly my point from the very start of this debacle in Barrio.
bluep,
we have this very long discussion on what comes first – platform or character sumtin’ sumtin’ which is how we ended up selecting noynoy aquino versus the rest and i don’t recall what entry that was now. in fact, if i remember correctly, tiga FV den ang kadiskusyon naten dun.
same people hahaha
The bottomline is, we do not know de quiros personaly and vice versa, yet after months of debacle about what to come first, platform o credibility, a certain columnist corroborated our stance…
not coincidence, not anything else, just common sense. You know, pseudo intellectuals like the idea of going against the flow only to find out that they already led themselves lost at sea– alone and isolated– preaching their gospels with the nothingness of the vast ocean. Kaya nga they have the monopoly of opinion, kasi they claim they are intelligent, they listen to themselves, and they clap at themselves. no other people except their very self. LOL
sabi ko nga, there is no standards by which one can accurately gauge intelligence, pero usually there is the factor of Common sense to consider.
why go against the flow of the common sense? Para ba ipakita na you are cut above the rest? LOL
Reinz:
Kung yung plataporma ni deQuiros ay naging plataporma ni Obama, boboto ka pa rin kay Obama? Sa palagay mo mananalo si Obama sa Democratic primaries kung yun lang plataporma niya?
aminin. magpakatotoo
mag full disclosure nga tayo dito pls.
Si reynz ay obvious na si NOynoy. Ako ay wala pang mapisil, samantalang sa aking pananaw ay si Noynoy ang lesser of all evils. Ikaw sino ba ang isinusulong mo?
O wala kang isinusulong at ang tanging nais mo ay mulatin ang masa sa mga kapalpakan ng mga tumatakbo, maging sino man ito. Kung ito ang isyon naisin, tol, medyo mukhang contrary yan sa programa ng mga nasa kaliwa.
Lahat na ng nasa kaliwa ay pumasok na sa larangan ng eleksyon dahil sa tactical gains na mapapala dito.
aktibista ka pala, saang grupo?
buraot:
tropang lean alejandro at elmer mercado.
ala pa akong sinusulong, subalit nakikita ko yung kakayanan ni Nick Perlas at hinahambing kina Villar, Noynoy, Chiz, at Bayani.
tapos na ako sa programa ng kaliwa – have had enough of plain jane vanilla ideologies – ika nga ni Deng Xiaopeng – it does not matter if the cat is black or white, what’s more important is it catches mice.
kung ang kaliwa ay sasanib dahil lang sa tactical gains, i’d say nalimutan na nila ang strategic blunder ng tactical collaboration with the oligarchs – imbes na maisulong ang agenda ng broad mass movement naging return of the oligarchs. and if they don’t remember the lessons from the anti-dictatorship campaign – they will commit the same mistakes of letting the oligarchs seize the initiative.
Ika nga ni Walden Bello – “Both EDSA I and EDSA II began as mass mobilizations that developed into insurrections. Owing to the threat that prolonged insurrection posed, however, the dominant faction of the elite quickly pushed to normalize politics by asserting the continuity of the elite democratic tradition and institutionalizing elections.”
bongv:
quite obviously they are just insurrections that started as mass actions. the problem with the left is they fail to seize the moment. palaging sinasabi, ang masa ang magkukusa at magdidikta, nasaan na tayo?
dahil ang strategy ay ang kubkubin ang kalunsuran mula sa kanayunan, naiwan tayo sa kangkungan.
kaya marami ang nadis-illussion, nahati na ng husto. pero at least somebody at the H.O.’s learned their lessons. now nakikilahok na rin sa eleksyon.
malinaw din na magkalayo ang henerasyon natin tol.
tropang popoy lagman at nilo dela cruz ako.
buraot:
alam mo naman maraming layer yung tropa.
si elmer at lean ay nasa open mass movement.
sa mas malalim na antas ay tropang nathan quimpo ang inyong lingkod.
layers layers. isa yan sa naging isyu ng hatian. pati sina popoy at ka nilo ay lumantad na rin in the open nong 90’s prompted partly by that HO-LO party mechanics.
but of course, the main point of argument is the realization of some cadres that times have changed. the balance of the forces of production are not the peasants anymore but mainly, the proletarians.
besides, sila naman ang mapagpalaya di ba?
ayun nakita ko ulit yung thread sa dami ng doble doble.
bongv, nathan quimpo ka kamo? bakit anlayo ng pic sa profile pic mo? wag mong sabihing bumata ka? heheheheh.
Ibinoto ko na si Obama. I even campaigned for him. Irrelevant na ang question na yan.
Convince me that your candidates are better. Baka mag-bago isip ko.
Reinz:
O ba’t naman irrelevant yung question.
madali lang namang sagutin yun.
Sa palagay mo, matatanggap ba ng mga Democrat ang plataporma ni de Quiros? sa totoo lang ha, magmumukhang kenkoy yung plataporma ni de Quiros.
And as you very well know, you can take the horse to the river, but you can’t make it drink. it is something that only you can do.
you have the credentials, the advanced degrees, you know the evaluation process (sisiw lang sa yo ang kepner-tregoe), you have an excellent grasp on empowerment, on the environment – padaanin mo sa proseso (as in imagine your MBA panel scrutinizing your justifications for your course of action) – and if you conclude it’s still noynoy.. who the hell am I to tell you no.. it’s a personal thing ika nga.
sagutin mo na lang ako kung sino ang napipisil mong kandidato. hindi parehas na nakipagtagisan ako seyo nang keyboard taz wala ka palang kandidato.
at sorry, hindi ako matalino dahil kalimitan disagree ako sa mga tiga-FV haha
reinz:
Nick Perlas caught my attention.
hindi lang honest, proven capability and ability, visionary pa talaga.
i had issues with his position on not allowing foreign investors to own real estate. but after looking at the rest of the candidates – who were totally devoid of platforms and substance – Perlas is starting to look very good.
i don’t know who nick perlas bong and i doubt if he’s got the winnability. meaning even if you can convince a number of people to vote for him, the bottom line effect is to dilute noynoys vote and so “another” candidate wins which i believe is your real candidate. would that be a safe presumption?
Winnability is a trapo concept and is a dirty word in my dictionary. Winnability is synonymous to trapo in my book.
I prefer proven ability, integrity, innovation, intensity, and visionary. Whoever most fits the mold gets my vote, regardless of winnability.
“winnability is dirty.”
you’re anti-election?
el capitana:
if you’re joining the election with not a winning position – isnt that being a nuisance? or you could also be pushing for the real candidate.
what makes you think also that any candidate joining has no strategy? and maybe that strategy is convulted it’s not making connection that’ why it’s zero in the ratings map?
what makes you think the candidate isn’t out to win the position?
come to think of it, someone’s frontrunner is someone else’s nuisance candidate
or a candidates without platforms – are nuisance to begin with
oppps! my response was above.
Exactly. Since when have platforms mattered to da Pinoy? Pinoys have been voting with their gut, all the way to the gutter. Buti na lang di tuluyang na-flush ni Ondoy.
So they keep on doing the same things – and yet they expect different results. O di ba, nakupo, mapapatawa si Lolo Albert Einstein nyan.
A platform is a statement of governmental principle and policy. It is a list of the actions which a candidate supports in order to appeal to the general public for the purpose of being voted into office. This often takes the form of a list of support for, or opposition to, controversial topics.
Individual topics are often called planks of the platform.
Remember that the platform is an essential first step in transforming ideas into laws, and in determining the party’s direction and velocity. It is estimated that platform amendments of winning parties have been enacted into law at least 50 percent of the time. Furthermore, where competing platforms agree—and disagree— continues to reflect points of consensus and conflict in the political system.
Gut-feeling the Way to the Gutter
Immature endorsers use hunches, instinct, intuition, and emotion. These individual acts may seem brilliant, but they can also result in more difficulties since jumping to conclusions often compounds or expands problems instead of solving them.
Failure to understand what the issue is often results in generating excessive (and expensive) precious time. Many immature candidate endorsers consider this step as unnecessary effort since they know what they are going to do – and this is a critical mistake that have sent many on the road to perdition. Preconceived notions (like gut and winnability) often result in increased deterioration duration and even deterioration expansion due to poor judgment.
Leveraging the combined knowledge, experience, intuition, and judgment results in faster and better decisions.
Stop. Take Stock. Say No. Think It Over.
true naman. think it over.
i’m actually sick and tired of the usual FV-crap that “if you don’t see it the way we see it”, you’re dumb and stupid (immature) which is very FV actually – for if anyone who does not agree with any FV blogger is un-intellectual, un-educated, immature and all crap which really is the bottom line of most of FV’s arguments even benigno.
Your being sick and tired does not have anything to with the fact that indeed, failure to understand what the issue is often results in generating excessive (and expensive) precious time. Many immature candidate endorsers consider this step as unnecessary effort since they know what they are going to do – and this is a critical mistake that have sent many on the road to perdition. Ilan na ba ang nabuntis at namatay sa maling akala? Aminin, magpakatotoo …
BongV,
However you tweak it BongV it’s still the same. Benigno has laid it out for you effectively easy na all those who chose Noynoy or Noynoy supporters are stupid at kagaya nang sinasabi mo are those who failed to see the real issue.
Anong bottom line nito? Aminin! Magpakatoo!
Reinz:
Saying people are stupid and asking what Noynoy stands for are apples and oranges. peks man
[...] at Barrio Siete, a commentor issued a challenge to another commentor that illustrates an aspect of the Philippine National “Debate” that is a Filipino [...]
Nick Perlas pala gusto niya…sino ba yan? A corrupt environmentalist? O baka si Satur gusto niya? hehehe. Ayaw nya kay Villar, Kay Erap, Kay Gibo, Kay Noynoy – si Nick Perlas daw. Ang haba haba ng usapan – di ko pa rin ma gets…sori.
aguy:
can you provide a link about the corrupt environmentalist thingie – I would like to raise this question with Perlas, too (if indeed you have a credible reference).
if you have something as credibly documented as the Senate hearings Hacienda
Is it “very FV” Mr. Reyna Elena?
Perhaps FV has more than its fair share of arrogant people and I dare say that arrogance is a bit more evenly distributed across MANY of us. I’ll say Barriosiete perhaps has less aggregate arrogance. But then most of what it does have collectively is concentrated on one person — a person who is almost single-handedly undermining B7 as a community.
You may delete this comment now if you want (now that you’ve read it). But then you will find that every observation I make about the behaviour of some of your inhabitants here is actually relevant to the discussion as it reflects Philippine society at large (all the “black propaganda” and the winning of wrong arguments in our society and all that), just as you yourself (and even me occassionally — if you will take the time to read my posts on FV) make observations and form a blanket generalisations of the inhabitants of FV too. Yours is evident in what you said: “the usual FV-crap” and “which is very FV actually”.
If people don’t want to be called stupid, perhaps they should stop acting stupid. No amount of being “sick and tired” of being called “stupid” will stop people from calling stupid people “stupid”.
I (personally) call Noynoy and his supporters stupid because to me they fail to exhibit any evidence of intelligence (in both the way the pitch Noynoy’s message — whatever that may be — and in the way they defend his attackers). And last I checked, an inability to exhibit intelligence is a symptom of stupidity. If we see Noynoy as possessing the “courage” to envision a different Philippines in the future, perhaps that courage might begin with acknowledging how stupid he presumes Filipino voters to be by delivering to them such a vacuous and limp-d1cked campaign. On the part of the Filipino voter, perhaps it is time that we for our part become courageous enough to DEMAND MORE INTELLIGENCE from our politicians.
Perhaps we should vote for Noynoy being the “lesser evil”. But even if we do, we should maintain a HIGH STANDARD in what we as voters DEMAND and EXPECT of him (or for that matter any politician) — not only during his campaign, but also through his term of office.
That is the kind of courage and INTELLIGENCE a true democratic people exhibit.
the last time i checked benigno was that – the response to noynoy’s effective ad campaign was a yellow bloodied ribbon.
i bow to you lord of all intelligence benigno.
just say who your candidate is and i’ll ask the rest of B7 writers and readers so we’d automatically be on the intelligent column, that is, if you can stomack us to be on your level.
You flatter me too much, Mr. reynz. I’m not here to tell people to follow me. I’m here to ask people to think and follow their intelligence.
As to my manok, this much I can tell you:
Keep on guessing.
but we don’t have that kind of intelligence benigno because we’re not FV bloggers, remember?
and no thanks for the invite, to this day, i am still traumatized by even the sound of the names of your comrades hahaha!
and no benigno, just like BongV and Botomoto, you won’t tell us who your candidate is, for fear of the same hedious scrutiny and largely because reynz is not a coward to tell the world that i support noynoy and i offer no apologies for my stupidity.
reynz,
hey i did say that i was leaning towards gordon but di na ata siya tatakbo. right now i’m still looking. bakit ba ayaw mo maniwala?
wala pa kong kandidato. namimili pa kasi wala pa namang nagsasabi (maliban nga kay perlas) kung ano ang gagawin nila para makamit ang “change.” alangan namang si perlas na piliin ko agad. siempre i will compare.
on the contrary reinz, BongV has the courage to go against the flow and jump the gun and jump to conclusions. I dare to ask the hard questions and take the road less traveled – what do they exactly stand for – I have ruled out Escudero, Villar, Fernando, and.. Aquino.. definitely not about winnability.. not just integrity, but proven ability, innovation, and revance of vision/platform of substance to my personal values- four KPIs. whoever fits the mold, gets my vote. not all will agree with me, or with you for that matter, but that is still okay – we agree to disagree on the point that noynoy is the best candidate
the issue of “who is the best ” is a totally different matter from “why so-and-so is not the best”. o di ba. High five?
well said benigno, in fairness to you, you are a compelling persona. with regards to all you said, i can only say that it’s but correct and i will take it as it is.
i just hope you will incur the other candidates the same treatment you did Noynoy.
but if you only do it for noynoy, then we don’t have to guess right?
hay, buti nalang di ako bumoboto matagal na, dahil kung hindi makukunsumi lang akong tunay.
basta ako solid, sa tumakbo sya o sa gumapang o umatras, GORDON parin!
lee! is that you? nakapasok ka? napayagan ka nang mga intsik? palibhasa busy sila sa parada at naka alpas ka haha
hahaha naka chamba, umiihi yung gwardia litsi
naku dinudugo ang ilong ko sa pag basa dito! masyadong madugo ang balitaktakan! kaya lang kasama pala ako sa “stupid”! hay buhay! pag hindi ka pala INTELLIGENT, stupid ka? aguy, aguy, aguy kawawa naman kaming dinudugo ang ilong hahahahaha peace po sa lahat ng bumabasa.
ganito yon annie,
karamihan sa mga FV bloggers na to mga idealist na tinatawag na ang ibig sabihin dapat matatalinong Pilipino lang ang nagbibigay nang opinyon. ang sukatan nang talino ay kapag ang opinyo mo eh ayun sa opinyon nila at pagka ganun – intelligent ka.
kapag salungat ka sa opinyon nila, isa kang estupido. yan ang general rule sa blog nila at nangunguna actually dyan si benigno at marami pa sila sa pulutong nila, kung hahanapin mo sa entry dun sa reyna elena ang mga pangalan nang mga yan makikita mo.
ganun ba Kapitana? aba eh tatawagin nga akong “stupid” dahil si Noynoy ang manok ko! sorry po hindi ko kilala si nick perla.
Nick Perlas is also an alternative candidate that’s why I don’t see the point of pitting an alternative against a fellow alternative. (Or an alternative to a trapo for that matter) They (alternatives) all have the same qualities and principle na pinaglalaban. It only depends on how the people perceive them. There are at least 4 alternative candidates on my list including chiz (surprise!), but unfortunately I believe more on noy as of this moment. Kaya I am not buying this debate who among the candidate is better and greater. or who is more intelligent when it comes to voting. Kasi it will all boil down to political rights. Right to choose and right to promote the preferred candidate. Wala sino man ang may karapatan na tawagin ang kapwa Pilipino nya na estupido dahil lamang he exercised his basic right to choose. No matter how dense or how compact the analysis and rationalizations are, still the fundamental right of a person to choose (freewill) transcends all existing idealogies. Universal ang rights to choose regardless of stupidity and lack of IQ.
To insinuate exclusivity of opinion as an equal to intelligent voting is a reminiscent of NAZI supremacy: the same principle that the Nazi’s are promoting—”The Arian Race is the Superior Race”. That’s why we cant help but assume that Nazism goes beyond racial supremacy. It also extends to intellectual discrimination and exclusivity.
The issue of intelligence is non-issue here since no one has the “accurate” metrics of intelligence much more gauging it with your right to choose. Even psychology has no standard metrics on how to gauge intelligence.
so let them call you stupid. after all, they also have exclusive followers: themselves.
Salamat po Kuya Bluep. sa inyong paliwanag, ngayon hindi na ako mag mumukmok sa sulok para kaawaan ang sarili ko ‘coz they are calling me stupid? hahahaha magandang gabi po! ako ay Pinoy sa puso at kaluluwa, kahit hindi ako intelehente, ‘wag nyo naman akong tawaging “stupid” dahil pare-pareho naman tayong Pinoy di ba? gandahan naman natin ang balitak-takan natin dito, iyung malinis at magalang…..dahil dito sa barrio natin kahit mangmang ay marunong namang humarap at tumingin ng tuwid sa mga taong may mga pinakamatas na aral! dahil ang puso namin ay bukal na malinis! ‘Wag kalimutan lahat tayo ay Pinoy, nag hahanap tayo ng lider na tutulong at sasagot sa ating mga katanungan at sa problema na rin ng buong Pilipinas.
@Annie – hehe oo kaya wag ka na magmukmok haha
worth a space on my FB wall!!!
Noynoy is a candidate of a trapo party – the LP. How can he be an alternative? you gotta be kidding me.
No, they don’t have the same qualities. Principles-wise, I have seen Perlas principles based on his complete platform. I have yet to see a platform from Noynoy – thus I cannot come to the conclusion that they stand for the same principles.
No one is questioning the right to choose – that’s not even on the table
What’s being discussed is how the process of choosing was done. Some choose by throwing a coin, some choose based on how they feel, and some really think it through. if you don’t want to use your brain in selecting a candidate – that’s fine, that’s your right.
The basis for stating that the Aryan race is superior has been disproven. Who is correlating exclusivity of opinion as intelligent voting? That’s a totally different banana from asking people to vote more intelligently.
Coming to a conclusion based on the parameters and evaluation framework is not intellectual discrimination and exclusivity – it’s just a process without any value judgments attached to it – nothing Nazi about it.
Actually psychology has various metrics or a combination thereof – they use the SATs, EQ, IQ, etc. Otherwise, without these metrics they wouldn’t be able to differentiate the average joe schmoe from a retard who needs to be in the Special Olympics.
This is another strawman reply, the issue is not about stupid or followers, the question being raised is – whether the use of the term “black propa” is even justified. is asking about the truth of hacienda luisita black propaganda?
Inasmuch as I don’t consider raising the issue of C5 as black propaganda – I am definitely interested to know the truth about it. If they launch a Senate investigation on C5 a la Hacienda Lusita, ZTE-NBN, the Tobacco Excise Taxes – the better!
YOSI BREAK!
leche! naiwan ko na restoran ko sa FB! politics is ruining my resto bisnis! grabe to!
reinz:
aren’t you setting up another strawman?
strawman?! kumain lang ako strawman agad? if you noticed the title of the entry and the way this discussion went di ba strawman ang ginawa nyo nina benigno? dito pa sa B7, which if you’re not familiar, yeah, hinahayaan kong sumemplang ang discussion to some extent
point exactly, the strawman raised by moi, and support your allegation,
in like manner, i’ll raise the strawman issue based on a reply which is offtangent.
if i say, strawman yung sagot mo, you say, it is not for the reasons provided.
mahirap naman yung just because you (or I) say so, o di ba?
in like manner, when you say, he is for “change” – how exactly is he for change? syempre babalik uli yung tanong habang di nasasagot.
tulad nyan – sasabihin mo check na yung platform ni noynoy – but in a previous statement you said “antayin muna natin” or if we’ll go by annie “nakatago dahil natatakot baka kopyahin” – so ano ba talaga – meron o wala? – kung maghinhintay pa, technically, WALA, cmon let’s get real
but that’s the thing BongV, you’re so hold up on this platform. so there you go – kahit anong explanation ko, this certainly is not a merry go round – fine – no platform don’t vote for him, i have no problem with that.
what seems to be the biggest problem aside from yeah i am this stupid to choose noynoy because i believe that he’s the best amongst the rest based on my own metrics and not following your FV charts and analysis? shoot the messenger because theyre not doing the right analintekal minds like you guys do right?
aminin!
spin the wheel uli kasi ilang beses na nating inulit to.
still for noynoy.
hahahaha….ang kulit ba? ‘wag masyadong dibdibin ang pakikipag balitaktakan kapitana at baka masira ang beauty mo! hahaha go, mag laro ka na sa F.B pampa-alis ng stress yun! hahaha
reinz: when you construct a house – you don’t need a blueprint?
a) a platform is a blueprint – it substantiates what the candidate stands for. it allows me to validate and evaluate the consistency of his platform with his achievements. in doing the vetting process i get to see the integrity (or lack thereof) as well. if there is nothing of substance to review, then I don’t see any reason to consider the candidate at all. if Noynoy has a platform of substance – I’ll be glad to consider him and I might even vote for him.
But right now, without the platform, I don’t see any reason to give Aquino due consideration at all – he does not stand for anything, stands for nothing, until he substantiates “change from what and into what?”
b) the conclusion is there is a difference in the evaluation methods. and different evaluation methods lead to different conclusions. nowhere do I say you are stupid because our metrics differ.
if you feel i am thinking you are stupid because our metrics differ – that’s YOU feeling… and… making that conclusion – not I (said the cat).
yeah BongV,
although us in the barrio are very talented. we can construct a house without a blueprint.
now, marcos has a blueprint. in fact, that was the reason why my lolo and lola voted for him and so were my parents.
gloria has a blueprint too. it is so blue it actually turned greenbucks.
would you believe that even erap has a blueprint too??? wow! if you remember boracay in new manila, what a great blueprint that was.
i’d rather go for noynoy without blueprint. as i have said, aquino has no “c” for corruption.
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o.. akala ko ba stupid ang B7 and its readers. e bakit nandito na ang mga tiga-FV? ha? HA? wala bang tao sa inyo? baka mahawa kayo ng stupidity namain dito?!
ei Leo,
hindi kita napansin, andito ka pala.
well, if you noticed hehehe nasa 175+ na po ang alexa namen. hehehe that is, if you’re reading what i’m reading hahaha all in a very short span of time! at panahon na for la kapitana’s next soba! busy lang sa mga lecheng habulan dito hehe
Reynz, bihira ako mag-comment pero lurker ako dito sa B7 24/7! hehe
naglalabasan na ang mga black propaganda laban kay noynoy.ganyan talaga sa politika. accept it. kailangan lumaban! propaganda laban sa propaganda. napapansin ko lang na parang mahina ang pr strategist ni noynoy…. si kris ba ang namamahala?
medyo napansin ko rin yan francis, the deluge of black propaganda ki noynoy probably engulfed them dahil hindi nila ini-expect to, if you noticed, tuloy lang ang drama nila ni mar while the rest eh they could not even decide on who their number 2 is
kaya that yellow bloodied ribbon was a stragey to put them off tangent sa streak nang popularity ni noynoy and the attacks if you noticed are unrelenting
i smell blood..
sino kaya ang protector ng black propaganda na iyan?
bok, basta ako, GORDON parin, pero sabi nila dina raw tatakbo, kulang lang sya sa ekspowsure sana ginamit nyang campaign material si patani,alam kasi nilang malakas e kaya hinaharang sigh!
kung dina talaga tatakbo ang manok ko e makapag aral ulit ng ibang kandidato na my magandang plata-puroporma,parang wala e,wala akong itulak tadyakan, pero sige lang try en try…
kahit na galit na galit ako kay Gordon , i respect your choice lee. but if you want to listen why i hate Gordon, i’ll tell you about it.
and take note… i will not shove it down your throat.
fan din ako ni gordon nung nasa manila pa ko. until maligaw ako ng gapo. i realized that he’s a dick.
Ayaw ko kay Gordon, kamamukhang-kamukha sya nung matanda na nakaaway ko at muntikan ko na makasuntukan sa PRC hahaha Pag nakikita ko si Gordon nagflaflashback lahat hahahaha
hahahah! he is DICK gordon, ano ka ba hehehe
kaya nga. hahahah! at least si gordon, consistent na dick! hhahahah!
high five?
high five?
hahaha that is sooo jurassic pag narinig tayo ni Eklat malelechehan tayo, na-hahalata tuloy ang mga A.D. berdeys dito hehe
hahaha!
i remember nung business school days ko. leche, i gave one short presentation about subic and the whole conversion thing, na ang galing ni gordon, that i see gordon as presidential and that his accomplishment sa base conversion would be great if he could translate it on a scale na magiging economic giant tayo and the whole thing. alam mo bang hanga ako dyan noon! leche fan ako nyan ah!
until naging senator. hahaha
ang lately, the peace chorva na binibigay nya sa abu sayyaf and finally di ko nagustuhan yong red cross incident.
pero nasusulsulan ako lee hehehe malay mo maging balimbing den ako!
Gordon has shown integrity, proven ability, innovation,
but I have yet to see his vision/platform – and evaluate whether it has substance and whether it resonates with my values.
even with a vision and a platform, i don’t think gordon would be able to rise from all his mistakes.
you just can’t smell it, literally it’s like a warning… a ghastly warning of something to come at sana wag naman…
Well, there’s not really much I can do if you choose to apply that kind of self-limiting attitude to challenges to raise the bar of the Philippine National “Debate”.
right. and the only bar there is in this debate – is to agree with you. else, your stupid and dumb. what else is new? that’s been that way at FV.
What is so “brave” about revealing to the world that you support Noynoy? Noynoy is the most popular candidate in the land. So there is hardly any bravery involved in joining a cause that is so popular. But there is courage in begging to differ and going against popular sentiment. That is the realm of true innovators — taken the road less/not taken.
In the Philippines, there is an abundance of roads not taken and a scarcity of people who dare tread those paths. Instead we see people who merely go with where the herd takes them. :p
well, isn’t it brave enough to be out with your support for a candidate and be the subject of tirades from ya’all? instead of ahh… “we’re still looking..”
reynz:
maraming nabubuntis sa maling akala. better to err on the side of caution ika nga.
time tested na ang word na “Aquino”
it doesn’t sound and rhyme like “Marcos”
nor is it synonymous with “Macapagal Arroyos”
did you notice? ni walang “C” for corruption sa word na “Aquino”?
ok mga peeps! karambola ulit! paikutin ang tambyolo! para balik ulit tayo sa simula. yahooooo!!!!
-time tested na incompetent
how profound!
yeap indeed. in fak, nakalimutan ko. it too doesnt sound like ERAP. iba talaga sya. pero di kita pipilitin.
I do hope that the public will get to know the report of Mareng Winnie. Because if we do, surely we won’t vote for a corrupt MONEY VILLAR! Ito na lang ang summary: 50-52 hectares ang property ni MONEY VILLAR, ang value na kanyang lupa per square meter ay nasa 11k+ whereas the NON-VILLAR property is only at 2k+. Pinahaba pa yung proyekto para pakinabangan ng husto. Sino ba ang talagang nakinabang sa proyekto na yan? SINO PA NGA BA EH DI SI MONEY VILLAR! SIPAG AT TIYAGA SA PANGUNGURAKOT! Is this the kind of president we want to have? Maawa tayo sa mga anak at apo natin.